BF2S Forums U.S. health care reform

Bankruptcy only affects your ability to buy a home.

But you could have bought something other than the shitbox you drive?

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Bankruptcy only affects your ability to buy a home.

What else do you need credit for? I bought my car with cash. I pay my rent with cash. I make all my purchases with cash via debit card. I don't have a credit card. The only thing my credit score is good for is my future home purchase. So yes, bankruptcy would in fact only impact my ability to buy a home.

Come on Ken, make a single rational argument. Stop with the hyperbole. You claim in one thread that you despise the government and in this thread you want to grant them even more power, with even less checks on their power, at a time where they can't even balance the budget without this new added massive expense.

well since everything is so easy for you I guess that's the way it is for everyone else too, right? That's one of your flaws- you take your experience (or those of people you know) and assume that's the way things are.

I don't despise the government.  I want the government to be a tool for the people, not a tool for big business and cronyism. I'm not ignorant enough to strictly say, "big government bad, small government good". There's parts of government that need to be trimmed, like meaningless bureaucracy and legislating morality. There's parts of government I think should be increased, like stricter regulation of securities and commodities. It's not a black and white discussion so you can't really attach a black and white approach to it.

I can't find anywhere in this thread where I advocate bigger government with less checks and balances to their power. I thought I was highlighting that the system as is is fucked up. Unfortunately the healthcare issue is a complex issue that I don't really have a great solution for. But I think it's important to focus on key broken parts of the system to work towards a solution.

Fair enough. I just don't see how taking up the cause of someone who clearly lacked health insurance is a winning one. Why wasn't he covered? How old is this kid? If he's that poor, why wasn't he signed up for medicaid programs which already exist? I just can't find fault with the hospital in this case because there are a ton of options out there that could've been used before treatment was needed. Insurance is always one of those things where you're like 'aww fuck it, I don't need it' and then when you do, you're fucked because your problem is now pre-existing. You can't get car insurance the day after you wreck your car and expect them to pay for it. At that point you just need to cut your losses and say tough shit, lesson learned.

You can't fix everything ken. When people try to do so, they usually make matters even worse for all involved. It's why I'm such a 'big government bad' guy. I know in my heart that the 330 million people in this country can figure out how to live their own lives quite well without the help of the 600 or so who are our purported leaders. Think about that. You're expecting 600 people to rescue 330,000,000 from their own mistakes, or think of situations they might face before they actually face them. It's an impossible task.

I believe in the market, because the market is democracy. A lot of people on the left in this country believe in government because they hate big business for some reason. Well, the only power that business has over any of us is derived from government so... yeah, figure that one out. Obama went into office offering Universal Healthcare and he walked away with a deal that made the insurance companies even more money by forcing everyone to buy their product.

Last edited by Jay (2011-12-16 13:44:25)

Only if you have a deductible, and only if you're insurance isn't enough to cover the damage.

so maybe you should amend your comment to be, "oh dear God NO! He had to pay for a service rendered on top of what he's already paying through insurance.  The horror!"

Oh so you're an expert on mental illness now? Hurk hurk hurk.

Uzique wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

He still got stung with a bill.

Oh dear God NO! He had to pay for a service rendered! The horror!

the guy is a paranoid schizophrenic. are you a mong? this poor guy, completely out of his control, has to pay a ridiculous amount of money whilst suffering from a life debilitating, inherited mental illness. it's hardly as if he went to the mechanics to get new tires on his car and then complained about the fee. he didn't 'ask' for the service, per se, did he? if it's a matter of losing your own sanity, of course you need treatment.

so if you have a child that has a severe disability that needs frequent medical attention, they should pay an extortionate amount of money that they can't afford because, after all, they're asking for the service! happy customer!

the mind boggles

No, I'm not from Mongolia. Why on earth would you think that? Quit being such a cauc.

People have accidents all the time that are completely out of their control. Should they not have to pay for the outcome of that?

I do, in fact, have a child with a severe disability that needs frequent medical attention. And I have two other children with lesser medical conditions that must be followed by specialists. And we have excellent insurance. And we pay a significant amount out of pocket for services we both require and ask for in order to make my son's quality of life the best it can possibly be.

I deal with hospitals and insurance companies regularly. My sister is a health care worker. We have nurses and other health professionals in our home who are essentially part of our family. Got a pretty good idea how the US health care system works, from the inside and the outside, from the customer, insurer and provider side...about 11.5 years' worth of non-stop experience with it.

basically you seem awfully happy to have 12 year's worth of expenses when here in the uk you'd get help with a disabled child for nothing. it comes out of your ordinary income tax.

and how exactly are you so callous about a paranoid schizophrenic when you deal with disabled people yourself? if your family were not as financially secure, and you read about your child's situation on an internet forum, would your response be: "well a service was rendered!". i think not.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-12-16 19:58:08)

Uzique wrote:

i can say i've willfully pushed my own head to its breaking limit. both of my grandparents on one side of the family are also into the pretty funky stages of late alzheimers, too, which is technically a mental illness that has no causal link or 'responsibility' involved. i'm glad nothing had a $10k fee associated with it for basic help.

i know we're not all on the autism spectrum like you are, unnamed, but don't get too protective over your 'special' understanding...

Oh, I was only trying to emulate you. Being difficult to deal with and all. Did I do good?

Jay wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Jay wrote:

If I added up the cost of insurance premiums over the course of my lifetime, I guarantee that it would end up costing me less than I would alternatively be forced to pay in taxes into a government bureaucracy.

Make that calculation when you get older and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when one of your children have had an accident and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when you depend on a certain medication to live a normal life and you find out your insurence doesn't cover that particular medication for some strange reason ...

Besides the taxes you pay and the taxes I pay aren't that far apart ...

Calculations complete. The answer is still the same.

I calculated my income tax from the previous financial year. I actually pay slightly less income tax than I would in the US and also get free public healthcare as per the Australian health system. Calculations complete

I would one day like to get private health cover, so I can not wait and choose my own doctor and the other associated perks, but for now public will suffice.

Healthcare is also one of--if not the--most heavily regulated industries in the US. So the government is heavily involved, forcing inefficiencies--and therefore higher costs--on the market. We have one of the highest levels of quality of care, but you pay dearly for it...even if a lot of those "costs" are not real. Much of them are written off (see previous discussion). I bet if you measured actual costs vs charges, the differential would be quite a bit less.

Uzique wrote:

no.

I must strive to be far more unpleasant if I am to ever succeed at it, then.