What's the point of insurance if you still have to pay a bill? I think that's one of the underlying questions the OP is addressingFEOS wrote:
Oh dear God NO! He had to pay for a service rendered! The horror!Dilbert_X wrote:
He still got stung with a bill.
It's supposed to discourage abuse.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
What's the point of insurance if you still have to pay a bill? I think that's one of the underlying questions the OP is addressingFEOS wrote:
Oh dear God NO! He had to pay for a service rendered! The horror!Dilbert_X wrote:
He still got stung with a bill.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Abusing the system? I don't understand that logic. People don't go to the doctor/emergency room for fun
You'd be amazed what being lonely drives some people to do. One of my friends works as an EMT and he used to get calls almost every night to pick up old people and shuttle them to the hospital, and most of the time it was just because they wanted to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Once the ambulance companies started charging $500 per trip, those types of calls came to an end.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Abusing the system? I don't understand that logic. People don't go to the doctor/emergency room for fun
If we didn't have co-pays or deductibles our hospitals would be full of people running to the doctor every time they had the sniffles.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Very good point.Jay wrote:
You'd be amazed what being lonely drives some people to do. One of my friends works as an EMT and he used to get calls almost every night to pick up old people and shuttle them to the hospital, and most of the time it was just because they wanted to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Once the ambulance companies started charging $500 per trip, those types of calls came to an end.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Abusing the system? I don't understand that logic. People don't go to the doctor/emergency room for fun
If we didn't have co-pays or deductibles our hospitals would be full of people running to the doctor every time they had the sniffles.
I started to write down possibilities on how can you abuse the system, but none of them were really life like...
The most life like scenario I could think of was when an attention seeking person goes to the ER and he invents a few symptoms for himself, and of course the docs cant deny treatment and order a few expensive tests which the insurance company HAS to pay but the guy doesn't. (This applies to hypochondriacs too).
What is true though is that if the patient didnt have to pay a fraction of the sum, then the possibility to abuse the system with zero effort and consequences would remain completely open.
The most life like scenario I could think of was when an attention seeking person goes to the ER and he invents a few symptoms for himself, and of course the docs cant deny treatment and order a few expensive tests which the insurance company HAS to pay but the guy doesn't. (This applies to hypochondriacs too).
What is true though is that if the patient didnt have to pay a fraction of the sum, then the possibility to abuse the system with zero effort and consequences would remain completely open.
$10,000 deductible? A $50,000 hospital bill as a deterrent? Cool story, bro.Jay wrote:
You'd be amazed what being lonely drives some people to do. One of my friends works as an EMT and he used to get calls almost every night to pick up old people and shuttle them to the hospital, and most of the time it was just because they wanted to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Once the ambulance companies started charging $500 per trip, those types of calls came to an end.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Abusing the system? I don't understand that logic. People don't go to the doctor/emergency room for fun
If we didn't have co-pays or deductibles our hospitals would be full of people running to the doctor every time they had the sniffles.
For suicide attempts. Why should others subsidize their suicide attempts? Why would you expect their insurance to cover something like that? That's not a deductible, that's a refusal to pay, or non-coverage.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
$10,000 deductible? A $50,000 hospital bill as a deterrent? Cool story, bro.Jay wrote:
You'd be amazed what being lonely drives some people to do. One of my friends works as an EMT and he used to get calls almost every night to pick up old people and shuttle them to the hospital, and most of the time it was just because they wanted to get out of the house and have someone to talk to. Once the ambulance companies started charging $500 per trip, those types of calls came to an end.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Abusing the system? I don't understand that logic. People don't go to the doctor/emergency room for fun
If we didn't have co-pays or deductibles our hospitals would be full of people running to the doctor every time they had the sniffles.
Last edited by Jay (2011-12-16 11:56:47)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
One was for schizophrenia, not suicide. The mental hospital stay from the suicide attempt was forced, not voluntary. Did you read the OP?
I have Macbeth blocked.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
One was for schizophrenia, not suicide. The mental hospital stay from the suicide attempt was forced, not voluntary. Did you read the OP?
Still, so what? If the guy is schizophrenic he's going to end up on medicaid regardless.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
We should just kill people that show signs of mental illness. That way we won't have to take care of them later. In fact, we every year we should look at who are net drains on the system and cull the herd.
Is that your solution? How brutal.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
We should just kill people that show signs of mental illness. That way we won't have to take care of them later. In fact, we every year we should look at who are net drains on the system and cull the herd.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
No Ken, I don't feel that way at all. I'm just look at the reality here and the guy can easily declare bankruptcy and wipe out the debt. He's more than likely going to be living on SSI for the rest of his life anyway. The taxpayer will end up footing the bill one way or the other.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Seems like that's what your advocating with your comments. I've said before that I have no problem helping people who are less fortunate than I, as I'd hope people would do the same for me. You use an exception (old people calling ambulances for company) as a justification for ridiculous medical bills. I bet you think everyone on welfare uses their dole to buy booze and hookers too
No, I used old people calling ambulances as the reasoning for why we have co-pays and deductibles.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Seems like that's what your advocating with your comments. I've said before that I have no problem helping people who are less fortunate than I, as I'd hope people would do the same for me. You use an exception (old people calling ambulances for company) as a justification for ridiculous medical bills. I bet you think everyone on welfare uses their dole to buy booze and hookers too
Do I think $50,000 for a month in a hospital is ridiculous? Sure, but someones gotta pay for the 24 hour care provided by on-site and on-call doctors and nurses, the electric bills, the medicine etc. All that stuff is expensive.
Hospitals always try to slam out-of-pocket payers as much as they can. They, unlike the insurance companies and the government, have zero leverage in negotiations. Is it fair? No, of course not. But you can blame the government for underpaying on medicare and medicaid payments to such a ridiculous extent for most of the problem. Groups always have more leverage than individuals. It's why we have political parties and things like insurance companies in the first place.
That kid clearly didn't have health insurance and was treated as an out-of-pocket payer. Blame his parents for being shitty. Blame his lack of bankruptcy as an option on Bush.
Last edited by Jay (2011-12-16 12:14:12)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
But even with that shitty coverage you still have leverage from your insurance company keeping the overall costs down. You don't pay the doctor directly for treatment, you pay the insurance company after they negotiate payment.hocSiciliano wrote:
Very true. Part of me has a hard time believing he has 50k will any sort of insurance. My companies insurance blows as I have to pay crazy amounts in copays and what not and pretty much I have to pay out of pocket for everything up to $5k I believe, after that everything is 100% covered and thats having a crappy HMO type plan.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Make that calculation when you get older and we'll talk again ...Jay wrote:
If I added up the cost of insurance premiums over the course of my lifetime, I guarantee that it would end up costing me less than I would alternatively be forced to pay in taxes into a government bureaucracy.
Make that calculation when one of your children have had an accident and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when you depend on a certain medication to live a normal life and you find out your insurence doesn't cover that particular medication for some strange reason ...
Besides the taxes you pay and the taxes I pay aren't that far apart ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Calculations complete. The answer is still the same.Varegg wrote:
Make that calculation when you get older and we'll talk again ...Jay wrote:
If I added up the cost of insurance premiums over the course of my lifetime, I guarantee that it would end up costing me less than I would alternatively be forced to pay in taxes into a government bureaucracy.
Make that calculation when one of your children have had an accident and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when you depend on a certain medication to live a normal life and you find out your insurence doesn't cover that particular medication for some strange reason ...
Besides the taxes you pay and the taxes I pay aren't that far apart ...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
You're not 40 yet and know ahead what your health will be? SweetJay wrote:
Calculations complete. The answer is still the same.Varegg wrote:
Make that calculation when you get older and we'll talk again ...Jay wrote:
If I added up the cost of insurance premiums over the course of my lifetime, I guarantee that it would end up costing me less than I would alternatively be forced to pay in taxes into a government bureaucracy.
Make that calculation when one of your children have had an accident and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when you depend on a certain medication to live a normal life and you find out your insurence doesn't cover that particular medication for some strange reason ...
Besides the taxes you pay and the taxes I pay aren't that far apart ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
jesus i cant read today i thought jay said never the same
By your own admission, the only way I come out ahead with the government option is if I suffer a catastrophic injury, can no longer work, and thus pay no taxes.Varegg wrote:
You're not 40 yet and know ahead what your health will be? SweetJay wrote:
Calculations complete. The answer is still the same.Varegg wrote:
Make that calculation when you get older and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when one of your children have had an accident and we'll talk again ...
Make that calculation when you depend on a certain medication to live a normal life and you find out your insurence doesn't cover that particular medication for some strange reason ...
Besides the taxes you pay and the taxes I pay aren't that far apart ...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
So yeah Varegg, if my fiancee (wife) leaves me, I lose my right arm, and become brain damaged, I'll be better off with the government option. Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Oh, but fuck, if all that happens to me I'll be covered by Medicaid.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
you should read the OP before coming into a thread shooting off yourJay wrote:
I have Macbeth blocked.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
One was for schizophrenia, not suicide. The mental hospital stay from the suicide attempt was forced, not voluntary. Did you read the OP?
Still, so what? If the guy is schizophrenic he's going to end up on medicaid regardless.
oh nevermind I am talking to myself
Yeah easily declare bankruptcy. Let me guess, you know a guy who had to declare bankruptcy one time and it was a piece of cake with no repurcussions.Jay wrote:
No Ken, I don't feel that way at all. I'm just look at the reality here and the guy can easily declare bankruptcy and wipe out the debt. He's more than likely going to be living on SSI for the rest of his life anyway. The taxpayer will end up footing the bill one way or the other.