BF2S Forums Why we're working our young people too hard

RAIMIUS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

If you don't know the math there is nothing you could do. The reading though...I don't understand how he couldn't work that out.

It is a little bizarre that in this country we have such a focus on individualism but at the same time rely on a one size fits all education model. You would think we had figured out a system that takes advantage of each different persons inherent skills and abilities by now.

Odd that they guy can't remember ANY algebra or geometry...I can understand missing things like the surface area of a sphere, but knowing NONE?!
I really don't see why he should mess up the reading section so bad, either.

Cybargs wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

well standardize tests are to judge a school and hold no weight in for the student (unless its the ACT or SATs).

Did you read the article?

yes i did, but i was replying mainly to this part


“If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had."

when i took standardized tests, no one received the scores but me and just placed me in a percentile ranking. and these tests don't determine a students future at all, but i do agree most standardized tests are a complete sham and ineffective way to judge how well a school/student is doing.

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

interesting, related article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans … _blog.html

A longtime friend on the school board of one of the largest school systems in America did something that few public servants are willing to do. He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.

By any reasonable measure, my friend is a success. His now-grown kids are well-educated. He has a big house in a good part of town. Paid-for condo in the Caribbean. Influential friends. Lots of frequent flyer miles. Enough time of his own to give serious attention to his school board responsibilities. The margins of his electoral wins and his good relationships with administrators and teachers testify to his openness to dialogue and willingness to listen.

....

“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly. On the reading test, I got 62% . In our system, that’s a “D”, and would get me a mandatory assignment to a double block of reading instruction.

He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate.

“I help oversee an organization with 22,000 employees and a $3 billion operations and capital budget, and am able to make sense of complex data related to those responsibilities.

“It might be argued that I’ve been out of school too long, that if I’d actually been in the 10th grade prior to taking the test, the material would have been fresh. But doesn’t that miss the point? A test that can determine a student’s future life chances should surely relate in some practical way to the requirements of life. I can’t see how that could possibly be true of the test I took.”

Here’s the clincher in what he wrote:

“If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had.

“It makes no sense to me that a test with the potential for shaping a student’s entire future has so little apparent relevance to adult, real-world functioning. Who decided the kind of questions and their level of difficulty? Using what criteria? To whom did they have to defend their decisions? As subject-matter specialists, how qualified were they to make general judgments about the needs of this state’s children in a future they can’t possibly predict? Who set the pass-fail “cut score”?

I kind of both agree and disagree. I was always a very good test taker so there's a big part of me that says suck it up, not everyone is cut out for college. But, the other part of me really hates the way material is taught in grade school. Forcing memorization does no one any good. Teach kids the why and then show them the how. Memorizing formulas or obscure word definitions is so far removed from reality, at college, and even moreso in the real world, that it probably does more harm than good. Teach kids the 'why' and they will self motivate.

Commie Killer wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

I kind of both agree and disagree. I was always a very good test taker so there's a big part of me that says suck it up, not everyone is cut out for college. But, the other part of me really hates the way material is taught in grade school. Forcing memorization does no one any good. Teach kids the why and then show them the how. Memorizing formulas or obscure word definitions is so far removed from reality, at college, and even moreso in the real world, that it probably does more harm than good. Teach kids the 'why' and they will self motivate.

this.

I like to think being taught the "why" would've completely changed my attitude towards school, but maybe I'm just being a bitch.

Jay wrote:

I kind of both agree and disagree. I was always a very good test taker so there's a big part of me that says suck it up, not everyone is cut out for college. But, the other part of me really hates the way material is taught in grade school. Forcing memorization does no one any good. Teach kids the why and then show them the how. Memorizing formulas or obscure word definitions is so far removed from reality, at college, and even moreso in the real world, that it probably does more harm than good. Teach kids the 'why' and they will self motivate.

Macbeth wrote:

And personal finance

Macbeth wrote:

There are plenty of classes, books, and seminars for the dumbest stuff, dude. Go to your local community college and pick up a course catalog and turn to the seminar sections. They have seminars on stuff from giving interviews and writing CV's to building relationships and making friends. The availability of classes for something humans can learn through natural experience and with a bit of intelligence doesn't qualify it for school teaching status.

Besides there are already classes offered in high schools that touch upon that. My high school offered multilevel accounting and bookkeeping classes. They were cut down to single level because of lack of interest though.