Piracy is just using the internet?

2011-11-01 20:31:01

#1

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

Aransas County Court-At-Law Judge William Adams took a belt to his own teenage daughter as punishment for using the internet to acquire music and games that were unavailable for legal purchase at the time. She has had ataxic cerebral palsy from birth that led her to a passion for technology, which was strictly forbidden by her father's backwards views.

The video in question
This came up on reddit titled "Family law judge beats own daughter for using the internet, please spread". Whether it's child abuse or not isn't the point of his thread. What I'm interested in is whether piracy is 'just using the internet' or 'stealing intellectual property'.

I think the RIAA and MPAA have taken a very heavy handed approach to piracy but they are morally justified in doing so. People who torrent stuff are receiving a product without paying for it against the wishes of the owner. That is pretty much stealing. I admit I have pirated software on my computer but I am not going to play mental gymnastics and try to rationalize my thievery. Piracy is stealing. Piracy is not 'just using the internet'.

I hope the father doesn't lose his job and disowns his treacherous daughter.

Last edited by Macbeth (2011-11-01 20:33:48)

2011-11-01 20:41:31

#2

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Macbeth wrote:
People who torrent stuff are receiving a product without paying for it against the wishes of the owner. That is pretty much stealing.

https://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg

What exactly am I stealing here?

2011-11-01 20:42:47

#3

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6737

AussieReaper wrote:
What exactly am I stealing here?

the opportunity of the owner to charge you too.

2011-11-01 20:44:08

#4

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

copyright infringement for personal use is not theft, its a different thing legally

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2011-11-01 20:46:13

#5

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
People who torrent stuff are receiving a product without paying for it against the wishes of the owner. That is pretty much stealing.

What exactly am I stealing here?

Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.

I don't get why 99% of people who pirate can't just admit they steal.

Last edited by Macbeth (2011-11-01 20:48:21)

2011-11-01 20:47:59

#6

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

Cybargs wrote:
copyright infringement for personal use is not theft, its a different thing legally

1. Depends on where you are located.
2. OP isn't about law. It's about ethics.

Thank you, come again.

2011-11-01 20:51:30

#7

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6737

2011-11-01 20:51:54

#8

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Macbeth wrote:
Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.

So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?

2011-11-01 20:53:41

#9

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Macbeth wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
copyright infringement for personal use is not theft, its a different thing legally
1. Depends on where you are located.
2. OP isn't about law. It's about ethics.

Thank you, come again.

copyright infringement is treated completely different on a legal perspective almost everywhere in the world. some countries dont give a fuck, while others would punish you a lot more than simply stealing the product from the store.

macbeth, this is just a shit topic done to death.

2011-11-01 20:53:58

#10

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.
So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?

No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-01 20:55:11

#11

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Jay wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.
So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?
No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.

It's only IP infringement if you bought the disk, take the files and manufacture your own disks and sell it without consent/paying royalties to the original company.

2011-11-01 20:56:02

#12

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Jay wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.
So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?
No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.

Okay, so then what is the issue if I seed a torrent?

I'm just passing my ownership to someone else.

2011-11-01 20:56:23

#13

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

Cybargs wrote:
macbeth, this is just a shit topic done to death.

Well don't let me stop you from getting the fuck out then.

2011-11-01 20:58:18

#14

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6914|Canberra, AUS

sorry but just reading that, i can't help but think that the only dickhead who deserves a belting in this piece is the judge.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-11-01 20:59:06

#15

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
Jay wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:

So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?
No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.
Okay, so then what is the issue if I seed a torrent?

I'm just passing my ownership to someone else.

No, you're passing your ownership to many people. You may wish to buy a book, read it, and then pass it on to a friend for nothing. You can't make copies of that book and then distribute it to people trying to avoid paying for it.

Keep pirating though, I'm sure it's all that keeps you off the dole.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-01 21:00:36

#16

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Spark wrote:
sorry but just reading that, i can't help but think that the only dickhead who deserves a belting in this piece is the judge.

its arkansas

2011-11-01 21:01:33

#17

RTHKI: mmmf mmmf mmmf; +1,741|6977|Cinncinatti

you arent passing ownership cause youre also keeping it

2011-11-01 21:01:52

#18

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Jay wrote:
I'm sure it's all that keeps you off the dole.

2011-11-01 21:01:54

#19

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6737

you*re

2011-11-01 21:02:38

#20

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

Jay wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Intellectual property. Is it for sale somewhere? Does the creator or owner of the copyright consent to you receiving the item without paying? That's stealing. You're receiving something against the owners will.
So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?
No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.

Um a piece of software or music isn't tangible like a car or house. It's different since in cases of software you are often buying a license to use the product. Giving it away or reselling is often in violation of your EULA. Intangible objects work along different rules.

Anyway so again how is receiving something against the copyright owners will not stealing in a ethical sense?

2011-11-01 21:05:28

#21

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Macbeth wrote:
Giving it away or reselling is often in violation of your EULA.

From the itunes EULA -

You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons.

That's totally binding. Otherwise I seriously would've download a 10 megaton nuke by now.

2011-11-01 21:05:52

#22

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Because its the same as buying a car, reverse engineer it and producing it to sell.

2011-11-01 21:22:27

#23

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5418|Sydney

AussieReaper wrote:
Jay wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:

So if I do buy that legally, but then re-sell it, is that stealing to?

I've stolen the opportunity for the intellectual property owner to make a sale. They did not consent to the resale when I bought it, or is that implied?
No, because you are passing on your ownership to someone else. It's no different from selling a used house or car.
Okay, so then what is the issue if I seed a torrent?

I'm just passing my ownership to someone else.

1. When you sell something you obtained legally, it is in its physical form - CD, book, DVD, etc.
2. To seed you are making copies, ie. piracy. Unless you have a licence from the publisher to do this, it is considered illegal.
3. This is all pretty straight forward stuff, at least to me. I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely don't understand.

2011-11-01 21:24:54

#24

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6737

i'm guessing 'genuinely don't understand', because Reaper would never troll.

2011-11-01 21:29:35

#25

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6392|what

Jaekus wrote:
1. When you sell something you obtained legally, it is in its physical form - CD, book, DVD, etc.
2. To seed you are making copies, ie. piracy. Unless you have a licence from the publisher to do this, it is considered illegal.
3. This is all pretty straight forward stuff, at least to me. I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely don't understand.

1. I can sell something I obtained legally in electronic form, too.
2. To seed I'm not making copies. Another person is making the copy.

I'm not stealing anything if I purchased it legally and others obtain a copy. Whether I sell it to them or not.

BF2S Forums Piracy is just using the internet?

Macbeth wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Jay wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

Jay wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Jay wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

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