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Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6456|Tyne & Wear, England
Speed of light 'broken' by scientists

The Telegraph wrote:

It was Albert Einstein, no less, who proposed more than 100 years ago that nothing could travel faster than the speed of light.

But last night it emerged that the man who laid the foundations for the laws of nature may have been wrong.

The science world was left in shock when workers at the world’s largest physics lab announced they had recorded subatomic particles travelling faster than the speed of light

If the findings are proven to be accurate, they would overturn one of the pillars of the Standard Model of physics, which explains the way the universe and everything within it works.

Einstein’s theory of special relativity, proposed in 1905, states that nothing in the universe can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum. But researchers at the CERN lab near Geneva claim they have recorded neutrinos, a type of tiny particle, travelling faster than the barrier of 186,282 miles (299,792 kilometers) per second.

The results have so astounded researchers that American and Japanese scientists have been asked to verify the results before they are confirmed as a discovery.

Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, said: “We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing.”

Scientists agree if the results are confirmed, that it would force a fundamental rethink of the laws of physics.

John Ellis, a theoretical physicist, said Einstein’s theory underlies “pretty much everything in modern physics”.
If this turns out to be real, and I'm a bit sceptical at the minute, then it'll blow the doors off physics.

Even still, it would be another triumph for science. Science is always asking questions, even of itself. Evolution.

Einstein won't be turning in his grave, put it that way.

Exciting times we live in.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+682|6283|Washington St.
I don't usually get hard over reading articles unless they're naughty articles but for this, i can make an exception.
iceman785
Member
+93|6665|Alaska, mother fucker.
Fucking cool. Star Trek is a reality now.
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6561|Mountains of NC

al never existed
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
Stimey
­
+786|6112|Ontario | Canada
nutrinos have been known to exceed the speed of light since 2007

and personally I never believed that c was the absolute fastest speed achievable.
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Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5171|Sydney
Fucking cool.
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5535|Toronto
Very cool.

Winston, get in here and lay down some physics knowledge!
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6667|Canberra, AUS
love what's happening in high-grade theoretical physics at the moment. theories being challenged left/right/centre.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6561|Mountains of NC

gravity exist



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DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6673|Disaster Free Zone
Einstein always knew there was flaws in his theories, but that's science. The man was working in the confines of knowledge and technology of his day and his work has helped human understanding no end.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6593|132 and Bush

So the web is buzzing right now over news that scientists have detected some subatomic particles moving faster than the speed of light.

Yeah, well, not so fast. Let’s think about this for a sec.

First, what happened is that they create these particles, called neutrinos, at CERN in Geneva. Neutrinos don’t interact with normal matter well, so they can pass right through the Earth as if it isn’t there. In a fraction of a second, some of them enter a detector called OPERA in Italy where they are recorded (pictured here). If you divide the distance between those two points by the time it takes for the neutrinos to travel, you get their speed.

And when the scientists did that, they find the neutrinos get to Italy about 60 nanoseconds faster than a photon would.

Photons travel at the speed of light — they are light! — so this means the neutrinos, if this is all true, traveled faster than light speed. Holy Kessel Run!

But is it true?

Now first off, if it were this would overturn so much physics that they may as well have discovered that gravity pushes, not pulls. So right away we need to treat this claim with lots and lots of skepticism. I’ll note these are actual particle physicists making this claim, and not some crackpots who will shake their fists at the sky and say how Galileo was laughed at too.

The thing to do is to look at where this claim might have gone awry. First, the timing is interesting. They claim a measuring accuracy of 10 nanoseconds, so 60 ns would be pretty significant. However, my first thought is that light travels about 30 centimeters in 1 ns, so they need to know the distance between the source and the detector to an accuracy of 3 meters. If they are off by 20 meters, then we’re done; that would explain the difference entirely. I suppose this depends on how they measured the distance and the speed of the particles, too. However, they haven’t published a paper on this just yet, so that’ll have to wait.

[UPDATE: The paper is now up on the arxiv preprint server. I took a look, and must say at first glance their reasoning looks solid. They appear to have the baseline distance nailed and the timing as well. However, the devil's in the details, and this isn't my field, so I'll be very curious to see how the pros in this discipline react to the paper.]

Also, as pointed out in a Science Magazine article, knowing the exact moment the neutrinos are created isn’t easy either. Mind you, 60 nanoseconds is 0.00000006 seconds, so they need a pretty good clock here. That page also says they used GPS to determine the distance, which could be off a bit.

There’s another point that actually is quite important here. If neutrinos travel faster than light, then we should’ve detected the neutrinos from Supernova 1987A before we saw the explosion itself. That exploding star was formed when the core of a massive star collapsed, detonating the outer layers. The collapsing core blasted out a furious wave of neutrinos strong enough to be seen here on Earth, over 160,000 light years away.

The distance from the detector in Italy to the source in Geneva is about 730 km. The travel time at the speed of light is about 2.43 milliseconds, and the neutrinos appear to have outraced that speed by 60 nanoseconds. If true, that means they were traveling just a scosh faster than light, by about 1 part in 40,000. The neutrinos from SN1987A traveled so far that had they been moving that much faster than light, they would’ve arrived here almost four years before the light did. However, we saw the light from the supernova at roughly the same time as the neutrinos (actually the light did get here later, but it takes a little while for the explosion to eat its way out of the star’s core to its surface, and that delay completely accounts for the lag seen).

But I wouldn’t use that argument too strongly; perhaps this experiment creates neutrinos in a different way, or the neutrinos from this new experiment have different energies than ones created in the cores of supernovae (a good bet). Still, it’s enough to make me even more skeptical of this FTL claim.

I’ll note that the scientists will be presenting these results tomorrow at a conference at CERN. We’ll learn more then. It’s not clear to me if these results are being published, or have been peer-reviewed, or what. As usual, we’ll need to have other scientists either confirm this result using other equipment, or show where things went wrong. That’s how science works. And the scientists involved are asking for criticism here! That’s just so; incredible results need to be tested incredibly well.

So don’t let your imagination run away with this just yet. This result will, in my opinion, probably turn out to be incorrect for some reasons dealing with measurement. Faster than light travel is still a dream, even though I wouldn’t say it’s impossible… just very, very, very, very unlikely.

Maybe someday we’ll boldly go. But for now, I’m not betting my dilithium on it.
Faster-than-light travel discovered? Slow down, folks
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Brasso
member
+1,549|6623

all engineering classes canceled, please stand by

fuck yes, no class
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
One particle being able to travel infinetasimaly faster than the apparent speed of light?

Engineering will be unaffected for the time being I think.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6685
This foreshadows the events of 2012. We're going to open a wormhole just outside Earth. An alien race known as the Combine are going to flood through the inter-dimensional gate and enslave the human race. The fate of humanity and planet Earth lie in the hands of one human scientist. Morgan Freeman.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6534|Texas - Bigger than France
I'm looking to Apple to make use of this technology in the next iPhone
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6685
Video chat back into time.
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5028|Massachusetts, USA

Superior Mind wrote:

This foreshadows the events of 2012. We're going to open a wormhole just outside Earth. An alien race known as the Combine are going to flood through the inter-dimensional gate and enslave the human race. The fate of humanity and planet Earth lie in the hands of one human scientist. Morgan Freeman.
https://static.igossip.com/photos_2/august_2011/Morgan_Freeman_image.jpeg

My my, now isn't that something.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6215|Escea

UnkleRukus wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

This foreshadows the events of 2012. We're going to open a wormhole just outside Earth. An alien race known as the Combine are going to flood through the inter-dimensional gate and enslave the human race. The fate of humanity and planet Earth lie in the hands of one human scientist. Morgan Freeman.


My my, now isn't that something.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-lot_YI9zb4/TJkRSsQgOrI/AAAAAAAAAHc/SfvTssPbQm8/s1600/MorganFreeman.jpg
rdx-fx
...
+955|6584
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6511|Πάϊ
Got a friend who works at CERN, says it's probably human error... pity though
ƒ³
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|6381
I was once locked up with a guy, whose cousin went to school with a plumber that unclogged a toilet at CERN and he says he thinks it's legit.

Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2011-09-23 13:14:23)

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oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6511|Πάϊ
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1384486?ln=el

Your friend might especially want to check the last two slides before jumping to conclusions. I know it's two hours long and most of it will go over your pretty little head anyway but what the hell, you got plenty of time before you have to bend over for the soap again.
ƒ³
Adams_BJ
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
+2,053|6615|Little Bentcock
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6729|Oxferd Ohire
lolwat
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6593|132 and Bush

If true those particles are traveling backwards in time.. right?
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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