BF2S Forums Some England riot sentences 'too severe'

Vilham wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

lowing wrote:

No thanks, what you wrote was pretty much insane. and I am in no mood. These kids are not animals driven by instinct in the wild. they are teenagers that saw free opportunity to take something for nothing without paying for it or earning it and no regard for who they hurt in doing so.

and they are not following my mantra of personal responsibility not in any stretch of the imagination, not even yours

Humans are not animals. You heard it here first.

I am siding with Jay here, you either want personal responsibility i.e. every man for themselves or you want social responsibility, morals, ethics and governance.

what kind of crack pot world do you live in where personal responsibility means every man for themselves.

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Humans are not animals. You heard it here first.

I am siding with Jay here, you either want personal responsibility i.e. every man for themselves or you want social responsibility, morals, ethics and governance.

Great, now all you gotta do is figure out how personal responsibility equates meaning "every man for himself".  I will wait.

It's precisely what it means lowing. You show it in every message you post. You have a gun so you can protect yourself, and you don't care if it means someone ends up on the wrong end of it. You bitch about taxes. You bitch about social security. You basically bitch about everything.

Then you write posts that commend the Germans and the orderly state of their country. Guess why? Because they don't bitch about everything that you find bitchworthy.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't preach individualism and personal responsibility and then turn around and lament the fact that people aren't working together as a team for some greater societal good. They are at odds with each other lowing. Accept the fact that your choices lead to chaos, rather than order.

I'm all about personal responsibility and individualism myself, I just understand what it means. Maybe put some thought into what your beliefs are instead of being the mouthpiece for regurgitated catch phrases from Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

Social responsibility is an ethical ideology or theory that an entity, be it an organization or individual, has an obligation to act to benefit society at large. This responsibility can be passive, by avoiding engaging in socially harmful acts, or active, by performing activities that directly advance social goals.

Jay wrote:

Social responsibility is an ethical ideology or theory that an entity, be it an organization or individual, has an obligation to act to benefit society at large. This responsibility can be passive, by avoiding engaging in socially harmful acts, or active, by performing activities that directly advance social goals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility

Catch phrases are bad people. Especially when they mean nothing. Personal responsibility has nothing to do with 'doing right by society'. Read a book.

Last edited by lowing (2011-08-21 18:48:27)

lowing wrote:

You are dead wrong!!

I bitch about TOO much taxes and wasteful spending. I bitch about paying into a SS system that I myself will not be able to collect. They system is broken.
I have a gun for many reasons, self defense is one of them, but I have never ever said I don't care if it means someone ends up on the wrong side of it. I have said I would rather it be the criminal and not me on the wrong side of it.

I commend Germany because whatever they are doing it works FOR THEM. Germans do not share the same attitudes of gimme gimme gimme, while I give nothing back, at least not from what I saw during my visit.

You are trying to equate personal responsibility as meaning every man for himself ( how I dunno, don't really care) but what it really means is, the individual is responsible for their own actions, and has an obligation to society to act accordingly, within the rules of that society. Not blame someone else for their when they don't.

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

lowing wrote:

You are dead wrong!!

I bitch about TOO much taxes and wasteful spending. I bitch about paying into a SS system that I myself will not be able to collect. They system is broken.
I have a gun for many reasons, self defense is one of them, but I have never ever said I don't care if it means someone ends up on the wrong side of it. I have said I would rather it be the criminal and not me on the wrong side of it.

I commend Germany because whatever they are doing it works FOR THEM. Germans do not share the same attitudes of gimme gimme gimme, while I give nothing back, at least not from what I saw during my visit.

You are trying to equate personal responsibility as meaning every man for himself ( how I dunno, don't really care) but what it really means is, the individual is responsible for their own actions, and has an obligation to society to act accordingly, within the rules of that society. Not blame someone else for their when they don't.

Ta Dah!

You've said it yourself, well done.

Yeah and?? how does that equate to "every man for himself"?

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yeah and?? how does that equate to "every man for himself"?

It doesn't its the opposite, its social responsibility which is exactly the point we made and you disagreed with

noooooooo you said personal responsibility meant "every man for himself". Now explain it.

Also, what the fuck else are you supposed to be personally responsible for, if not your actions within a society? Pretty fuckin stupid point you are trying to make.

Personal Responsiblity

The responsibility of other persons to take care of their own problems in a time of need (whether or not they are capable of doing so) because I do not wish to be bothered by them.

Social Responsiblity

A voluntarily assumed obligation toward the good of a larger social unit as opposed to the self alone

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-08-22 06:07:08)

lowing wrote:

Why the fuck are we even talking about this? Is there some point you wanna make or are you just wanting to argue?

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

It is the fault of the police, not the kids involved. The natural state of all things, societies chief among them, is entropy. Chaos. Any society will degenerate if the rule of law is effectively challenged, as it was in England. The police created opportunity via ineptitude. If they'd cracked down hard in the first day, it would not have created the perceived consequence free environment.

and where does personal responsibility fit in here Jay? These TEENAGERS didn't even know why they were rioting, they were just following the crowd and enjoying themselves, not pissed off. Watch the video, those girls were laughing and giggling over it all, and like you blaming everyone except those committing the crimes.

Personal responsibility? How does that come into play here? Personal responsibility is the duty taken on to provide for you and yours. I'd say the rioters lived up to that expectation astoundingly well. Oh, but you mean it in a way in that they are guilty. Well, yes, of course they are guilty for breaking the peace. They are guilty of rioting and looting. But they lived up to your golden rule of personal responsibility: I'll get me and mines and fuck all y'all. Isn't that the gist of what you pronounce in every thread? Fuck everyone else, I got mine, I'm not paying for your social programs or your health care. My money is mine, I earned it, I'm keeping it. Well, they were just living up to your example.

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

lowing wrote:

noooooooo you said personal responsibility meant "every man for himself". Now explain it.

Also, what the fuck else are you supposed to be personally responsible for, if not your actions within a society? Pretty fuckin stupid point you are trying to make.

So if there is no society. Do you have no personal responsibility?

Personal responsibility and social responsibility are diametrically opposed. Social is where you think about how your actions effect others, personal is where you only worry about looking out for yourself.

If you are personally responsible you accept responsibility for your actions as measured from within a society. You do not blame someone else for your actions. YOU are responsible for all your affairs within a society. Why the fuck are we even talking about this? Is there some point you wanna make or are you just wanting to argue?

Yeah Cheeky if you were the only person alive in the world you have nothing to own up to or be measured against. You are responsible for nothing since nothing you do would affect anyone.

What a bunch of bullshit this is.

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

So if there is no society. Do you have no personal responsibility?

Personal responsibility and social responsibility are diametrically opposed. Social is where you think about how your actions effect others, personal is where you only worry about looking out for yourself.

If you are personally responsible you accept responsibility for your actions as measured from within a society. You do not blame someone else for your actions. YOU are responsible for all your affairs within a society. Why the fuck are we even talking about this? Is there some point you wanna make or are you just wanting to argue?

Yeah Cheeky if you were the only person alive in the world you have nothing to own up to or be measured against. You are responsible for nothing since nothing you do would affect anyone.

What a bunch of bullshit this is.

Because there are a million and one factors that go into any action. If I held a gun to your head, walked you to a ledge, and told you to jump, who would be to blame if you jumped? By your definition, it would be your own, because you had the ultimate choice whether you took the plunge or not. The fact that I was holding a gun to your head was irrelevant. This is why black and white, right or wrong, presumptions do not work.

Let's add more to this: what if you were hungry? Or thirsty? What if you hadn't slept in four days and were hallucinating? What if I had forced you to take drugs? But this is all irrelevant. Live or die, your choice.

Jay wrote:

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't preach individualism and personal responsibility and then turn around and lament the fact that people aren't working together as a team for some greater societal good. They are at odds with each other lowing. Accept the fact that your choices lead to chaos, rather than order.

I'm all about personal responsibility and individualism myself, I just understand what it means. Maybe put some thought into what your beliefs are instead of being the mouthpiece for regurgitated catch phrases from Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

lowing wrote:

Wrong. By you pointing a gun to my head, you are FORCING me into a position and decision not of my choosing, this makes YOU responsible for the outcome. Period.