Yea, we just stab the shit outta each other... No?Adams_BJ wrote:
we dont have gun crime. period.Jay wrote:
And I don't hear of many shootings here in America that don't take place within black communities. Most of our gun crime is black on black.Adams_BJ wrote:
I also don't hear of any shootings over there, or here in Australia, what's yours?
So they're poor people eh? They can't help it?TimmmmaaaaH wrote:
Why does every issue in every country turn in to a fucking gun debate. It is completely irrelevant. The police have plenty of non lethal methods of enforcing the law, bringing firearms into it just makes it worse.
I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for everyone to get their 'justice' and see poor people brutalised by police before this is over. Everything will be repaired and the actual cause of all this will go completely under the radar because it isnt politically sound to try and fix it.
le sigh13rin wrote:
@jay haha..Granny ain't walking a 150lb rottie and sure as shit ain't playing 'cricket' with a rioter's head.FatherTed wrote:
baseball bat/really big dogs seem to be the current favourite. a pistol/shotgun is not the only way to defend yourself, especially when the people you'll be defending against in the vast majority of cases won't have a firearm either.
Your last sentence sums it up nicely. I wonder if my shop would be robbed if I was standing in the threshold holding an AR.
Little old lady would probably be bowled over and have the gun taken from her before she can actually hit any of them13rin wrote:
@jay haha..Granny ain't walking a 150lb rottie and sure as shit ain't playing 'cricket' with a rioter's head.FatherTed wrote:
baseball bat/really big dogs seem to be the current favourite. a pistol/shotgun is not the only way to defend yourself, especially when the people you'll be defending against in the vast majority of cases won't have a firearm either.
Your last sentence sums it up nicely. I wonder if my shop would be robbed if I was standing in the threshold holding an AR.
id rather a guy get stabbed than a person in a house/down the street behind the incident who has nothing to do with it copping a stray bullet.13rin wrote:
Yea, we just stab the shit outta each other... No?Adams_BJ wrote:
we dont have gun crime. period.Jay wrote:
And I don't hear of many shootings here in America that don't take place within black communities. Most of our gun crime is black on black.
Last edited by UnkleRukus (2011-08-10 07:07:57)
Well the majority doesn't. derp. But the argument that a significant amount of people are still affected by gun crime that can be avoided if guns weren't so readily available isn't disproven by the fact that "mostly black people shoot each other". (That conveniently ignores a lot news stories, mass murders, and other things but OKAY)Jay wrote:
No, it's not Macbeth. I'm clearly pointing out that the majority of the citizens of the United States do not have to worry about gun crime, even though we're the most armed populace on the planet. Our gun crime is isolated to small pockets which most intelligent people avoid like the plague.
I am not going to bother arguing any of this crap because I have seen the constant cycle of unchanging opinions in D&ST to know it is pointless. If you cant see that despite the opportunistic elements of these riots there is a subtext of societal decay and a feeling of helplessness (that cant be simply solved by "getting a job") then I really dont know what to say.Jay wrote:
So they're poor people eh? They can't help it?TimmmmaaaaH wrote:
Why does every issue in every country turn in to a fucking gun debate. It is completely irrelevant. The police have plenty of non lethal methods of enforcing the law, bringing firearms into it just makes it worse.
I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for everyone to get their 'justice' and see poor people brutalised by police before this is over. Everything will be repaired and the actual cause of all this will go completely under the radar because it isnt politically sound to try and fix it.
How about the fact that they are poor is irrelevant. They're looters and thieves. Thanks for the bleeding heart bullshit rhetoric though.
It should be restated that poor people in general are the ones who do the shooting and looting. Trailer parks infested with white trash usually has plenty of firearm offenses, the ghettos as well.Macbeth wrote:
Well the majority doesn't. derp. But the argument that a significant amount of people are still affected by gun crime that can be avoided if guns weren't so readily available isn't disproven by the fact that "mostly black people shoot each other". (That conveniently ignores a lot news stories, mass murders, and other things but OKAY)Jay wrote:
No, it's not Macbeth. I'm clearly pointing out that the majority of the citizens of the United States do not have to worry about gun crime, even though we're the most armed populace on the planet. Our gun crime is isolated to small pockets which most intelligent people avoid like the plague.
You could argue that some gun crime is a cost of freedom and all that jazz and write off the amount of violence. That could work. But desperately saying o well "only nignogs shoot each other" as an argument against gun control is just retarded.
Interestingly enough I'm no your side in this debate. Sucks when the idiots are on my side...
Doubtful. She'd have a better chance if she was armed.Adams_BJ wrote:
Little old lady would probably be bowled over and have the gun taken from her before she can actually hit any of them
That doesn't hold any water.Adams_BJ wrote:
id rather a guy get stabbed than a person in a house/down the street behind the incident who has nothing to do with it copping a stray bullet.
Well no shit. I think the antigun people can agree to that. The thing is- it has nothing to do with the argument at hand.UnkleRukus wrote:
It should be restated that poor people in general are the ones who do the shooting and looting. Trailer parks infested with white trash usually has plenty of firearm offenses, the ghettos as well.Macbeth wrote:
Well the majority doesn't. derp. But the argument that a significant amount of people are still affected by gun crime that can be avoided if guns weren't so readily available isn't disproven by the fact that "mostly black people shoot each other". (That conveniently ignores a lot news stories, mass murders, and other things but OKAY)Jay wrote:
No, it's not Macbeth. I'm clearly pointing out that the majority of the citizens of the United States do not have to worry about gun crime, even though we're the most armed populace on the planet. Our gun crime is isolated to small pockets which most intelligent people avoid like the plague.
You could argue that some gun crime is a cost of freedom and all that jazz and write off the amount of violence. That could work. But desperately saying o well "only nignogs shoot each other" as an argument against gun control is just retarded.
Interestingly enough I'm no your side in this debate. Sucks when the idiots are on my side...
so the walls are covered in guns? How whats the staff:gun ratio? are they loaded? what happens if a bunch of drunk guys decide to start taking them off the wall and using them against everyone else?UnkleRukus wrote:
The whole argument is stupid on both sides TBH. Criminals will find a way to get a gun if they want one, regardless on how many regulations there are. If they're desperate enough, they'll acquire one somehow. We have few shootings up here, a hand full every year. Mostly involving illegal weapons that were smuggled into the state.
About a year and a half ago they busted some guy in Springfield, MA with like 3 or 4 dozen illegal weapons. Mix of automatic rifles, sawed off and regular shotguns, handguns ranging from .22LRs to .45s and machine pistols.
In a state that has some strict gun laws that came as a bit of a shock, but the result wasn't stricter gun laws. The result was stricter punishments for having an illegal firearm. Which should be the case, don't punish the legitimate by making it harder to acquire a firearm, punish those who break the law by making the sentences worse.
Also adams, i went to a bar the other day owned by some 70 year old English woman. The walls were festooned with legal firearms ranging from a Luger to a carcano rifle. The amount of bar fights this place sees is probably nil.
This thread needs some 'real world facts'.....FatherTed wrote:
maybe we do need some long running dst topics so people can just get common issues out of their system
guns
israel
m3thods lot
Here's real world fact about gun violence- there are more suicides committed with guns in the U.S. than there are murders every year. If you own a gun you are more a threat to yourself than others. And now you know. And knowing is half the battle.13rin wrote:
This thread needs some 'real world facts'.....FatherTed wrote:
maybe we do need some long running dst topics so people can just get common issues out of their system
guns
israel
m3thods lot
MA state law, guns have to be kept under a trigger lock at least (locked up when no-one is around). Which they all were, simple combo lock. A lot of them were muzzle loaders that weren't loaded. The pistols were all behind the bar and out of reach from patrons, and the old woman was beloved by everybody in the bar. Even my friends and I who had just discovered the place.Adams_BJ wrote:
so the walls are covered in guns? How whats the staff:gun ratio? are they loaded? what happens if a bunch of drunk guys decide to start taking them off the wall and using them against everyone else?UnkleRukus wrote:
The whole argument is stupid on both sides TBH. Criminals will find a way to get a gun if they want one, regardless on how many regulations there are. If they're desperate enough, they'll acquire one somehow. We have few shootings up here, a hand full every year. Mostly involving illegal weapons that were smuggled into the state.
About a year and a half ago they busted some guy in Springfield, MA with like 3 or 4 dozen illegal weapons. Mix of automatic rifles, sawed off and regular shotguns, handguns ranging from .22LRs to .45s and machine pistols.
In a state that has some strict gun laws that came as a bit of a shock, but the result wasn't stricter gun laws. The result was stricter punishments for having an illegal firearm. Which should be the case, don't punish the legitimate by making it harder to acquire a firearm, punish those who break the law by making the sentences worse.
Also adams, i went to a bar the other day owned by some 70 year old English woman. The walls were festooned with legal firearms ranging from a Luger to a carcano rifle. The amount of bar fights this place sees is probably nil.
I dunno, maybe the locals at the bar have respect for the 70 something year old lady running the bar, rather then being terrified of guns. I couldn't say though having never been there.
Somehow I don't think a group of drunk/drugged up chavs are gonna be too worried about an old lady with a gun. Theyd probably already be on top of her by the tim eshe gets it out. Its not like they stand around for half an hour waiting and making it obvious they are targeting her. They jump out and get them before they have a chance to defend themselves. I can only see a gun escalating the problem to be honest.13rin wrote:
Doubtful. She'd have a better chance if she was armed.Adams_BJ wrote:
Little old lady would probably be bowled over and have the gun taken from her before she can actually hit any of themThat doesn't hold any water.Adams_BJ wrote:
id rather a guy get stabbed than a person in a house/down the street behind the incident who has nothing to do with it copping a stray bullet.
Last edited by Adams_BJ (2011-08-10 07:24:02)
At exactly the same rate as the Americans. Who have guns, so its strange that that hasn't decreased their knife crime really, as I thought gun ownership solved all crime.13rin wrote:
Yea, we just stab the shit outta each other... No?Adams_BJ wrote:
we dont have gun crime. period.Jay wrote:
And I don't hear of many shootings here in America that don't take place within black communities. Most of our gun crime is black on black.
Apparently from what I've heard, cavs are fucking cowards. I'd wager that them merely knowing that Grannie has a 12 gauge and a nasty disposition toward them would be more than enough to keep them away.Adams_BJ wrote:
Somehow I don't think a group of drunk/drugged up chavs are gonna be too worried about an old lady with a gun. Theyd probably already be on top of her by the tim eshe gets it out. Its not like they stand around for half an hour waiting and making it obvious they are targeting her. They jump out and get them before they have a chance to defend themselves. I can only see a gun escalating the problem to be honest.
The same argument could be made for police chases then. They should have to walk instead of drive because they might lose control and crash into someone else.and how doesn't my argument hold any water? An isolated incident in a small area as far and wide as the guy's arm span or 4-5-6 shots being fired off in the hope that one hits. Like I said before, Id rather the guy get stabbed than have shots ringing off and potentially hitting my family.
Kitty stomping thread isMacbeth wrote:
Well the majority doesn't. derp. But the argument that a significant amount of people are still affected by gun crime that can be avoided if guns weren't so readily available isn't disproven by the fact that "mostly black people shoot each other". (That conveniently ignores a lot news stories, mass murders, and other things but OKAY)Jay wrote:
No, it's not Macbeth. I'm clearly pointing out that the majority of the citizens of the United States do not have to worry about gun crime, even though we're the most armed populace on the planet. Our gun crime is isolated to small pockets which most intelligent people avoid like the plague.
You could argue that some gun crime is a cost of freedom and all that jazz and write off the amount of violence. That could work. But desperately saying o well "only nignogs shoot each other" as an argument against gun control is just retarded.
Interestingly enough I'm no your side in this debate. Sucks when the idiots are on my side...
Tell that to this guy (3 days ago in St. Petersburg, FL)Adams_BJ wrote:
I just can't see any positive to carrying a firearm out in public. Like I said before the bad guys are more likely to get a hold of it than me seeing him, identify him as a threat, un holster, aim, and shoot. Nevermind safety and chambering a round (assuming you dont carry with one in there, and safety on)
Shit just happens quicker than that. If im gonna get attacked he's gonna be on my person within a few seconds, probably before I even realise whats going on, and then in that time he has the chance to get his hand on MY gun and use it against ME. Sorry id rather give the guy my wallet/ get pushed around and punched up than get shot.
Would have helped a few shop owners...Vilham wrote:
At exactly the same rate as the Americans. Who have guns, so its strange that that hasn't decreased their knife crime really, as I thought gun ownership solved all crime.