Hey now, the US didn't invent the old favorite: the soccer riot. It is surprising that all these people are getting involved. I don't recall any such physical violence after the Angel Alvarez incident last year, which arguably reflected far worse on the NYPD than this shooting did on the Met.
perhaps you didn't read the part about 'endemic corruption and police violence'. newspaper scandal shows our met police is corrupt and bought out at the highest levels. a year of protests (nominally from the students union) with police over-reactions, kettling, and other heavy-handed treatment of students as young as 14. this has been a long way coming. not to mention that fatal shootings are par for the course in america. not so here. very rare.
Last edited by Uzique (2011-08-07 10:46:29)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I understand how uncommon it is, but it's not like the case in New York a few years ago when police fired upon a wedding or reception, something along those lines. I've not heard anything new about whether the pistol found in the car was actually fired at the police and apparently hit that radio. These feelings towards the police aren't new either, since that's pretty much what "The Guns of Brixton" was about and the subsequent riots in later years. Perhaps this was just an opportunity to vent some of that, and isn't so much about the Duggan incident.
The NYC incident was in Brooklyn and took place as a guy was coming out of a strip club for his bachelor party. There were a lot of rallies on his behalf but no rioting from what I remember. I think people learned from the Rodney King riots that it's retarded to destroy the neighborhood you live in.DesertFox- wrote:
I understand how uncommon it is, but it's not like the case in New York a few years ago when police fired upon a wedding or reception, something along those lines. I've not heard anything new about whether the pistol found in the car was actually fired at the police and apparently hit that radio. These feelings towards the police aren't new either, since that's pretty much what "The Guns of Brixton" was about and the subsequent riots in later years. Perhaps this was just an opportunity to vent some of that, and isn't so much about the Duggan incident.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
If we could just swap rioters around to neighborhoods that aren't theirs, perhaps we could see some real violence! Then we could broadcast it to the world and use the commercial funds to pull down tenements and erect actual buildings.
/facetiousness
/facetiousness
thanks for the history lesson on my own cityDesertFox- wrote:
I understand how uncommon it is, but it's not like the case in New York a few years ago when police fired upon a wedding or reception, something along those lines. I've not heard anything new about whether the pistol found in the car was actually fired at the police and apparently hit that radio. These feelings towards the police aren't new either, since that's pretty much what "The Guns of Brixton" was about and the subsequent riots in later years. Perhaps this was just an opportunity to vent some of that, and isn't so much about the Duggan incident.
the bullet found in the officer's radio was a police bullet. nearly had a friendly fire incident. the guy didn't try to fire on them.
as i said the tension has been rising for a long time. swamp81/brixton was similar, but racial/politically motivated. this is universal.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Do you find it annoying when people who don't live there try to tell you what it's like there?
That must be like the first time that's ever happened here...
That must be like the first time that's ever happened here...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
as if we're anywhere near as historically specific when we talk about america. we discuss general matters and issues that have some effect/influence/coverage here in europe/uk. it's not as if im lecturing you on the finer points of the chicago GOP riots.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Wat, Democratic National Convention?
lol exactly, well done!
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
The people of Tottenham aren't exactly a peaceful and honest bunch, with their 'fuck da police' attitude they've had for a while now.Uzique wrote:
lol peaceful protest against corrupt and violent police authorities. okay.
Fuck Israel
Umm.Dilbert_X wrote:
The people of Tottenham aren't exactly a peaceful and honest bunch, with their 'fuck da police' attitude [citation needed] they've had for a while now.Uzique wrote:
lol peaceful protest against corrupt and violent police authorities. okay.
Its been a shithole for a while now.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Umm.Dilbert_X wrote:
The people of Tottenham aren't exactly a peaceful and honest bunch, with their 'fuck da police' attitude [citation needed] they've had for a while now.Uzique wrote:
lol peaceful protest against corrupt and violent police authorities. okay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock... his attackers were trying to decapitate him. Witnesses say that having wrenched his riot helmet from him, his attackers then repeatedly stabbed him in the body, and continuously hacked away at his neck. PC Blakelock lost several fingers as he tried to defend himself before the attackers fled, as more police, firemen, and ambulance men moved in to try and save him. Tonight Scotland Yard confirmed that the injuries were so grievous that it did appear the men were trying to behead the officer.
In other news:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines … 6110406120
There's plenty more to the Mirror scandal than a bit of phone hacking. Police Officers should be going to prison over taking bribes, and their involvement in a murder.A PRIVATE investigator was used by Mirror newspapers to pay bribes to a royal protection officer in exchange for stories, secret police transcripts reveal, as a Guardian editor faced possible investigation for admitting he had hacked phone messages.
Documents from a covert police bugging operation against Jonathan Rees show how the private detective created a network of corrupt police officers to supply information to the Daily Mirror and Sunday Mirror, as well as the News of the World.
A police file detailing the eavesdropping against Rees - performed during a murder investigation - states: "We have obtained evidence of corrupt practices relating to a (Sunday Mirror) journalist."
It alleges that the reporter indirectly "pays serving police officers" to provide internal official documents. Police raided the reporter's home after the bugging in 1999, arrested him and seized several documents, but chose not to prosecute.
Rees was at that time a suspect in the 1987 murder of his business partner, Daniel Morgan, of which he was acquitted earlier this year.
He was convicted of planting cocaine on an innocent woman to discredit her in a custody battle involving another client. He is now believed to be under investigation over an alleged operation by a NOTW reporter to hack into the emails of a former Northern Ireland intelligence officer.
Former NOTW executives have been questioned about payments to corrupt police officers. The Rees transcripts suggest the practice was more widespread.
The reporter no longer works for the Mirror Group, but the disclosures will raise questions about whether payments to serving police officers were ever sanctioned by the company. Mirror Group has already launched an internal investigation into journalistic practices.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-08-08 05:13:28)
Fuck Israel
so what's more likely: the average citizen of tottenham is a scumbag with no morals and anarchist tendencies, or the average citizen of tottenham is pissed off about police murders on their doorstep? you're looking down at the people that are neglected and pissed off, when it should be the authorities and their treatment of them that you question. a bit of casual snobbery and racism in there, dilbert?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
The Police are trying to deal with black-on-black gangster crime, mostly involving illegal guns and murders.
A guy with an illegal gun got shot, bad luck, how is that an excuse for a riot?
The people of Tottenham have made it what it is, a shithole.
A guy with an illegal gun got shot, bad luck, how is that an excuse for a riot?
The people of Tottenham have made it what it is, a shithole.
Fuck Israel
the guy didn't fire his gun, and there is no evidence he had it drawn or threatened police with it. a little too much force to kill someone in broad daylight in a public place? as i've said this isn't america, people don't agree with that sort of thing happening in their neighbourhood. perhaps the police were over-eager because they were in tottenham and because they were dealing with a black man? this shit wouldn't happen if they were arresting a yuppie corporate coke dealer that carried a gun for protection in the city. and you cited that brutal murder as evidence that tottenham is just a ghetto, whilst conveniently ignoring the entire 3 months of incidents of police brutality, endemic racism and discrimination leading up to that murder (e.g. swamp81, brixton riots). i don't understand why you're so selectively not seeing the bigger picture on this issue, when it is normally your skeptical forte.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
We don't know what really happened just yet, except the guy apparently had an illegal gun and was target of a planned operation in which he was to be arrested but was shot. If he was a drug dealer then too bad.Uzique wrote:
the guy didn't fire his gun, and there is no evidence he had it drawn or threatened police with it. a little too much force to kill someone in broad daylight in a public place? as i've said this isn't america, people don't agree with that sort of thing happening in their neighbourhood. perhaps the police were over-eager because they were in tottenham and because they were dealing with a black man? this shit wouldn't happen if they were arresting a yuppie corporate coke dealer that carried a gun for protection in the city. and you cited that brutal murder as evidence that tottenham is just a ghetto, whilst conveniently ignoring the entire 3 months of incidents of police brutality, endemic racism and discrimination leading up to that murder (e.g. swamp81, brixton riots). i don't understand why you're so selectively not seeing the bigger picture on this issue, when it is normally your skeptical forte.
We'll see I guess.
In the meantime I think I'll let my racial prejudices run for a little while here.
And they do shoot yuppies too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/07/ukguns.london
Fuck Israel
the way someone looks doesn't much concern me. a product of their environment. clearly if you live in a rough area you're going to have to put on the accoutrements and persona of someone that's 'hard' just to get by-- everyone does this. it's like a byproduct of poverty. does it mean they're all reprobate individuals that can be shot without much care or question? are you the sort of guy that will move into another carriage on the underground if some 'unsavory' characters get on at a shadier stop, dilbert? and to think of all the times you have accused me of snobbery. i'm going to give someone the benefit of the doubt and not indict them to death based on their fashion choice or social clique. and, besides, aren't you the sort of guy that will argue like a dog-on-a-bone about american police authorities shooting drug dealers? wasn't there a thread (w/ video) a few months back where a guy had has is home raided (on suspicion of drugs - planned raid, again) and had his dog shot? i swear you were one of the people arguing fervently that it was a gross misconduct. so a drug dealer's dog getting shot is a travesty yet a man getting shot in a public street is "well done, deserved". i swear this is the sort of 'guilty by association, deemed to death by implication' legal arguments that lowing produces. "he was no doubt a criminal of some sort, anyway, so his death was pretty much voluntary and inevitable". that's a scary line to take, dilbert.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
In that case it was gross misconduct, as evidenced by the video, the failure to bother with a warrant, and so on.
In this case we don't yet know any of the facts, and yet you're assuming that because he was black the Police must have shot him because they're all racist pigs.
The Met are racist and corrupt, but nevertheless they do occasionally arrest black people who really have committed crimes and are a danger to the community.
The old 'bullet in the radio' blag is a bit obvious maybe, the fuzz will do anything.
If he was a drug dealer carrying an illegal gun and tried to take on armed Police then I'm not going to cry too much. We'll see in due course.
In this case we don't yet know any of the facts, and yet you're assuming that because he was black the Police must have shot him because they're all racist pigs.
The Met are racist and corrupt, but nevertheless they do occasionally arrest black people who really have committed crimes and are a danger to the community.
The old 'bullet in the radio' blag is a bit obvious maybe, the fuzz will do anything.
If he was a drug dealer carrying an illegal gun and tried to take on armed Police then I'm not going to cry too much. We'll see in due course.
Fuck Israel
He's quite consistent. Anything American, or done by Americans is wrong, whether he actually agrees with it or not, it's wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Change it.Uzique wrote:
the way someone looks doesn't much concern me. a product of their environment. clearly if you live in a rough area you're going to have to put on the accoutrements and persona of someone that's 'hard' just to get by-- everyone does this. it's like a byproduct of poverty. does it mean they're all reprobate individuals that can be shot without much care or question? are you the sort of guy that will move into another carriage on the underground if some 'unsavory' characters get on at a shadier stop, dilbert? and to think of all the times you have accused me of snobbery. i'm going to give someone the benefit of the doubt and not indict them to death based on their fashion choice or social clique. and, besides, aren't you the sort of guy that will argue like a dog-on-a-bone about american police authorities shooting drug dealers? wasn't there a thread (w/ video) a few months back where a guy had has is home raided (on suspicion of drugs - planned raid, again) and had his dog shot? i swear you were one of the people arguing fervently that it was a gross misconduct. so a drug dealer's dog getting shot is a travesty yet a man getting shot in a public street is "well done, deserved". i swear this is the sort of 'guilty by association, deemed to death by implication' legal arguments that lowing produces. "he was no doubt a criminal of some sort, anyway, so his death was pretty much voluntary and inevitable". that's a scary line to take, dilbert.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
it's a little circumspect to me that they released the news that "an officer was taken to hospital with injuries in the 'confrontation'"... there was no confrontation, a police officer shot another police officer, who was lucky enough to take the bullet into his chest-radio. they were already presenting it in the news as if there was a gunfight showdown and the black man injured an officer. hardly the case. they killed a man and also shot themselves in the process, rofl.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Again, we don't know the facts just yet. This may be the case, its unclear. Ricochets happen after all, the Police are trigger-happy, it seems he was carrying an illegal gun, and so on.Uzique wrote:
it's a little circumspect to me that they released the news that "an officer was taken to hospital with injuries in the 'confrontation'"... there was no confrontation, a police officer shot another police officer, who was lucky enough to take the bullet into his chest-radio. they were already presenting it in the news as if there was a gunfight showdown and the black man injured an officer. hardly the case. they killed a man and also shot themselves in the process, rofl.
Or you can continue believing the Police just picked a random black guy and shot him because they didn't think he should be riding in a car like proper white folks.
Why don't you go set fire to Tescos and steal some DVD players to prove how angry you are?
Fuck Israel
of course i acknowledge he was a drug dealer, under investigation, maybe carrying a gun too.
shot dead in the street? 'due and reasonable force' is something i like to see with legal enforcement officials... not some gung-ho trigger happy morons on my high street. and im not rioting becauase it isn't an ugly black mark on my neighbourhood, but i'd definitely have something to say about it if a guy was killed at the end of my road, here, without any real proof.
shot dead in the street? 'due and reasonable force' is something i like to see with legal enforcement officials... not some gung-ho trigger happy morons on my high street. and im not rioting becauase it isn't an ugly black mark on my neighbourhood, but i'd definitely have something to say about it if a guy was killed at the end of my road, here, without any real proof.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You don't have any proof there wasn't any proof.
Aren't you defeating your own argument?
A guy was shot dead by the Police 20 metres from my house. He was a drug dealer, he took a potshot at the Police with an illegal gun, they blew him away - too bad.
Aren't you defeating your own argument?
A guy was shot dead by the Police 20 metres from my house. He was a drug dealer, he took a potshot at the Police with an illegal gun, they blew him away - too bad.
Fuck Israel
well... right back at you. there was absolutely no indication that he "took a potshot at the police". the only discharged rounds thus far discussed in public have been police-issue ones... namely the one lodged in another officer's chest. i guess we'll have to see when things come to light (if it ever does, knowing the Met right now...)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/