JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6820|Sammamish, WA
So I was watching the segment "Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking" that came after the two "Curiosity" programs tonight on the Discovery channel. Normally I avoid that station for anything with actual scientific content as it's generally popularized and dumbed-down. Just the fact that they have to, after every commercial break, summarize everything they just spent the last 10 minutes talking about (as if the audience might forget during the commercials!) ruins it for me.

One of the statements they made in the show was regarding the state of the universe right after the big bang. Specifically they stated that about 100 seconds after the Big Bang the universe had expanded to an area roughly the size of our solar system from a single point.

However that stuck me as extremely odd. Our solar system is large enough that light takes many minutes to traverse it. So how did the universe travel faster than light?

For argument's sake say the orbit of Pluto is the edge of the solar system (the actual "edge" could be farther out, but let's use this measurement just to get going). Pluto's orbit is about 5,913,520,000 km from the sun. Now the speed of light is 29979.2458 kilometers per second. That means that light would take 197253.795 seconds to traverse the solar system's radius, a hell of alot longer than the boundaries of the universe actually spent moving that distance.

So I was under the impression that nothing can move faster than the speed of light. But apparently the boundaries of the universe did right after the Big Bang? Sure, I recognize that, at least according to this program, the universe has no "medium" outside it to expand in. So maybe the boundaries of the universe don't follow that law. But within the boundaries of the universe? Looks like space was expanding faster-than-light. Perhaps all of the content of the universe didn't move that fast and it's spent the last 14 billion years moving to catch up and fill the void. But something still doesn't seem right here.

Maybe someone who knows more about this stuff can fill me in?

Last edited by JdeFalconr (2011-08-07 22:06:14)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6971
I understand the formation of universes to be more of a vacuuming from one space to another.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6431|what

Pluto is not a planet.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Stimey
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+786|6398|Ontario | Canada
Yea, I've only taken about 2 weeks of basic astrophysics so don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that the Universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. Don't ask me how. Its just part of the big bang theory.
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Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6971

AussieReaper wrote:

Pluto is not a planet.
It's a dwarf planet.

The solar system is much bigger than the limits of pluto. The ort cloud shrouds us from very far away.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6431|what

JdeFalconr wrote:

That means that light would take 394,507.59 seconds to traverse the solar system's diameter, a hell of alot longer than the boundaries of the universe actually spent moving that distance.
Don't you mean radius?

Why would it travel from one end to the other if it was expanded from the mid point?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6820|Sammamish, WA

AussieReaper wrote:

Pluto is not a planet.
=P It may not be but it's a good point of reference. Maybe we should describe the solar system as eight planets, a point of reference and this thing called Sedna nobody knows what to do with.

Don't you mean radius?

Why would it travel from one end to the other if it was expanded from the mid point?
Good point, I guess if the universe expanded from a single point then we'd be considering the time light would travel from the radius. 197253.795 second, then, to go from center to our "point of reference that's actually shorter than the edge".

Last edited by JdeFalconr (2011-08-07 22:05:08)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6879|132 and Bush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light
Read the "The varying speed of light cosmology" section
Xbone Stormsurgezz
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6820|Sammamish, WA

Kmar wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light
Read the "The varying speed of light cosmology" section
Yeah I saw that...so what that's supposed to mean is that when the universe was much smaller the speed of light was much faster? Weird.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6879|132 and Bush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_problem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation

Sorry I'm being lazy. But those are good points to start at.

rough weekend
Xbone Stormsurgezz
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6431|what

JdeFalconr wrote:

Kmar wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light
Read the "The varying speed of light cosmology" section
Yeah I saw that...so what that's supposed to mean is that when the universe was much smaller the speed of light was much faster? Weird.
Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light through space. This does not, however, limit the speed at which space can expand.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6879|132 and Bush

AussieReaper wrote:

JdeFalconr wrote:

Kmar wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light
Read the "The varying speed of light cosmology" section
Yeah I saw that...so what that's supposed to mean is that when the universe was much smaller the speed of light was much faster? Weird.
Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light through space. This does not, however, limit the speed at which space can expand.
Right... We need to imagine the universe as being regulated, woven together like fabric. Now, within that universe everything must travel across that "fabric". However, the edge of the universe is different ..think of it like a balloon expanding.

hope that helps.. kinda.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6971
We exist in 3D space. But the whole of the universe exists in perhaps 11D space.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6431|what

Superior Mind wrote:

We exist in 3D space. But the whole of the universe exists in perhaps 11D space.
See that? Give it a sec, there! You just experienced the 4th dimension!
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6879|132 and Bush

The laws of the Universe do not apply to the nothingness the Universe is expanding in to.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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