i know, im surrounded by them at school
It's very difficult to get around the whole ethnic/cultural aspect in terms of work ethic that East Asian/Subcontinental cultures push. It really is quite strong, even for me (and I come from that background!)
I've made my views on the horror that is the way that mathematics and especially physics is taught in the West - especially in this country clear before. It should not be appropriate that I can sail through high school physics having learnt very little physics I didn't know from other sources and get an impossibly high exam mark - because half the time what is being examined is not physics.
I've made my views on the horror that is the way that mathematics and especially physics is taught in the West - especially in this country clear before. It should not be appropriate that I can sail through high school physics having learnt very little physics I didn't know from other sources and get an impossibly high exam mark - because half the time what is being examined is not physics.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
no, i just know that none of my white-ass friends will ever work as hard or hit the books as intensely as the indian students that will take the job at the end of the day. why does that make me an idiot? these people basically see education as a second religion. we're too busy watching oprah.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Speak for yourself. I worked my ass off to graduate magna cum laude.Uzique wrote:
no, i just know that none of my white-ass friends will ever work as hard or hit the books as intensely as the indian students that will take the job at the end of the day. why does that make me an idiot? these people basically see education as a second religion. we're too busy watching oprah.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i worked my ass off too s.c.l w/ prize-win and scholarship offer. no shit. i still don't think/know any people with the cultural discipline for education and studying. it's not a sleight on your beloved talent, john. just saying that they have a helluva lot more drive than your average white, comfortable middle-class graduate. being cynical, we expect more from employment, too.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I think you misread my post...Uzique wrote:
no, i just know that none of my white-ass friends will ever work as hard or hit the books as intensely as the indian students that will take the job at the end of the day. why does that make me an idiot? these people basically see education as a second religion. we're too busy watching oprah.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
nah galt just deleted his. he said "you're an idiot", but then... deleted it.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
It doesn't translate into practical work though. I know the kinds of kids you're talking about, the type that sit in the library for eight hours a day doing homework seventeen different times just to make sure they got the answers precise. They're more robot than human being at that point. Anything that requires even a little creativity and they fall flat on their face. Why? Because they simply memorized a method without actually thinking about the practical side of its application.
But we're generalizing here. I've known way more Chinese kids that simply cheat their ass off in school than the robotic library drones everyone fears
But we're generalizing here. I've known way more Chinese kids that simply cheat their ass off in school than the robotic library drones everyone fears
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
OH deleted it, not me.Uzique wrote:
nah galt just deleted his. he said "you're an idiot", but then... deleted it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
yep. at the private school I went to the hardest working kids were always the Asians, especially the first generation ones. The thing about Asian parents getting angry at even an A- is a stereotype steeped in a lot of truth.Uzique wrote:
many of them are also really, really smart. or at least extremely hard working. a work ethic for studying and proper work that you just cannot breed in the west. like, insane amounts.
sweet, im in physicsJay wrote:
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-mich … neeri.htmlMacbeth wrote:
???Macbeth wrote:
Got a source for that?
http://www.engtrends.com/IEE/0502C.php
http://education.yahoo.net/articles/six … egrees.htm
or, if you want to look at supply and demand...
derivatives are taught in grade 11 here...Jay wrote:
The way math is taught here is hideous. There is no reason in the world that Calculus can't be taught to high school freshmen rather than as an elective for advanced seniors. Kids get babied way too much and the stuff they are taught is completely out of order. Why teach kids the slope function without teaching them the derivatives behind it? Because it's been classified as college level? Ridiculous.
thats about what what our percentages are here too. its varies widely on the program (way more local people in biology, chemistry, etc but high percentages of international students in engineering, math, physics)Uzique wrote:
i think like 60%+ of the science/math students (especially at graduate level) here are international. and that's pretty normal.
ive talked to a few people who do interviews for med school spots and they deny a huge amount of 97% 4.0GPA nose-against-the-books people. most of them are so caught up in their studies they have no social skills or anything that would actually help them be a useful doctor. theyre robots. good marks dont necessarily mean they'd be better at a certain job.Uzique wrote:
i worked my ass off too s.c.l w/ prize-win and scholarship offer. no shit. i still don't think/know any people with the cultural discipline for education and studying. it's not a sleight on your beloved talent, john. just saying that they have a helluva lot more drive than your average white, comfortable middle-class graduate. being cynical, we expect more from employment, too.
Differentiation is taught at Year 11 level here. My view is that it should be taught at a minimum to advanced students at Year 8/9.
It's really not that hard. And it makes your algebra skills razor sharp. Kill two birds with one stone and all that jazz.
It's really not that hard. And it makes your algebra skills razor sharp. Kill two birds with one stone and all that jazz.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
In the UK we did calculus at school, not university.Jay wrote:
We graduate 60,000 less engineers per year than the country needs. It's not a lack of opportunity to attend engineering school that's the problem, it's that calculus terrifies people for some reason. If I end up with more competition, so be it.
Its easier if it learnt young.
Fuck Israel
Shows what you know...Oprah's not even on any more.Uzique wrote:
no, i just know that none of my white-ass friends will ever work as hard or hit the books as intensely as the indian students that will take the job at the end of the day. why does that make me an idiot? these people basically see education as a second religion. we're too busy watching oprah.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
No worries there, Engineering thrives in India.Jay wrote:
We graduate 60,000 less engineers per year than the country needs. It's not a lack of opportunity to attend engineering school that's the problem, it's that calculus terrifies people for some reason. If I end up with more competition, so be it.
and that completely rebunks my point about us cosy middle-class white people being not as hard-working as first-generation asians!!!FEOS wrote:
Shows what you know...Oprah's not even on any more.Uzique wrote:
no, i just know that none of my white-ass friends will ever work as hard or hit the books as intensely as the indian students that will take the job at the end of the day. why does that make me an idiot? these people basically see education as a second religion. we're too busy watching oprah.
it's just common sense: of course we're not going to be driven to work as hard and 'achieve' in school when we're already pretty comfortable.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
one hit for the difference for anything below 90. so you get an 80 you get smacked 10 times. for each test. for each subject. lol.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
yep. at the private school I went to the hardest working kids were always the Asians, especially the first generation ones. The thing about Asian parents getting angry at even an A- is a stereotype steeped in a lot of truth.Uzique wrote:
many of them are also really, really smart. or at least extremely hard working. a work ethic for studying and proper work that you just cannot breed in the west. like, insane amounts.
Problem is with a lot of Asian engineering students is that they will never really cut it out to be top engineers as a lot (not all, but a lot) of them are socially reclusive.
where does this criteria come from all of a sudden to be socially amazing... most of the white math/science students i knew at university were awkward as hell and rarely ever went out, much less to have an 'ordinary' undergraduate experience. seems funny to me that you're clinging to "yeah they're good but they're not social!" argument when the white math/science geek gets stigmatized as it is. perhaps they just don't interact as much because they're in a foreign country, alien culture, different language... and are just there to get a degree?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
not saying to be social genius', but engineers do really need to deal with people... a lot. i live in sydney and you do realize how many asians there are? most engy students (especially azns lol) rarely ever go to events... theres enough fobs out here to counter balance it. not saying that all engy kids are socially reclusive but you do need a lot of basic social interaction skills. its like a lot of azns IN ASIA who study med and are too shy to talk to people (blame the parents, always forcing them into cram schools and dont let them 'waste time' by hanging out with their friends).Uzique wrote:
where does this criteria come from all of a sudden to be socially amazing... most of the white math/science students i knew at university were awkward as hell and rarely ever went out, much less to have an 'ordinary' undergraduate experience. seems funny to me that you're clinging to "yeah they're good but they're not social!" argument when the white math/science geek gets stigmatized as it is. perhaps they just don't interact as much because they're in a foreign country, alien culture, different language... and are just there to get a degree?
there for one.
http://www.boston.com/news/education/hi … le_skills/
Last edited by Cybargs (2011-08-08 05:49:44)
it's nice that western socially reclusive geeks can make themselves feel better by reassuring themselves that there are foreign, international socially reclusive geeks somewhere below them on the line. honestly, get over it. if like a lot of science/math grads you eventually end up trying to go into business or commerce or the 'ordinary' working world (i.e. non scientific), you're going to be trumped by just about every other major out there in the social aptitude test. so the argument that these top ftse 100 companies look for "well rounded" candidates is a bit weak, considering that (in the uk at least) the science/math booklickers are the least well rounded of them all already. some small compensation that there are foreigners at your school a little worse at mingling than you.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You do realize I'm pretty much a foreigner in Australia right? before I came here for uni the last time I was in this country was about 8 years ago. I could really care less about my "competition" as I'm not exactly going into the fields they're gonna be in.Uzique wrote:
it's nice that western socially reclusive geeks can make themselves feel better by reassuring themselves that there are foreign, international socially reclusive geeks somewhere below them on the line. honestly, get over it. if like a lot of science/math grads you eventually end up trying to go into business or commerce or the 'ordinary' working world (i.e. non scientific), you're going to be trumped by just about every other major out there in the social aptitude test. so the argument that these top ftse 100 companies look for "well rounded" candidates is a bit weak, considering that (in the uk at least) the science/math booklickers are the least well rounded of them all already. some small compensation that there are foreigners at your school a little worse at mingling than you.
im just saying... on the 'candidates social attitude' test... if you go into anything outside of the sciences/maths, you're beat by even the lowliest film studies or social science student on the "i can talk and keep the office lively" scale. so really your social advantage over asian students only applies in the sciences/maths, anyway, which is basically a moot point and no advantage at all. you guys sure cling to your petty victories.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Here's where I call you a clueless idiot again.Uzique wrote:
im just saying... on the 'candidates social attitude' test... if you go into anything outside of the sciences/maths, you're beat by even the lowliest film studies or social science student on the "i can talk and keep the office lively" scale. so really your social advantage over asian students only applies in the sciences/maths, anyway, which is basically a moot point and no advantage at all. you guys sure cling to your petty victories.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Thankfully that was pretty much forgotten in the 90s, companies want people to do jobs of work and most film school and social science graduates are keeping McDonalds lively, not the office.Uzique wrote:
the "i can talk and keep the office lively" scale
David Brents just aren't in high demand, thankfully.
Fuck Israel