Keep telling yourself that. If you can do it, you can find plenty of other people who could do it. Better than you no less.Stimey wrote:
the point is we won't get more engineers into the system.
you're underestimating the difficulty of the degree, nevermind a graduate degree
Yeah of course, because scholarship students make up a significant enough proportion of the population to have a really substantial impact.Jay wrote:
The brightest have, and will always be able to attend college. Colleges pay them to attend via scholarship in order to increase prestige.Bertster7 wrote:
It's not.Jay wrote:
Oh, ok, how about government funding only for pre-approved degrees? The government should set quotas for every degree amirite?
Why is your solution always more governmental interference to solve prior government interference?
My solution is to raise the bar academically. In a privatised system this is unlikely to happen naturally as it would reduce profits by shrinking the market.
We agree degrees are devalued. There is one way to increase their value, give out less of them.
When it comes to giving out less of them, then you can either choose to charge more for them (pricing the bottom end out of the market) or you can increase academic standards so fewer people are capable of obtaining them (ending up with only the best of the best academically). Is it better to have graduates being the richest students or the brightest ones?
How on earth can you be pessimistic? American students are getting worse at math, not better. ABET will never lower the standards because it would destroy the engineering market. They have a vested interest to maintain high standards. It keeps out the riffraff and allows the engineering industry to keep its solid reputation. The bar exam is cake compared to the FE. So is the GMAT. Trust me, the GMAT was a joke in comparison.Macbeth wrote:
That really isn't the universities problem. And we have plenty of people who manage to get through their bar exams or the GMAT eventually. It's not like there is a shortage of lawyers or MBA holders since it became the ticket to wealth and privilege.Jay wrote:
Because the thought of buildings and bridges collapsing rightfully terrifies people. That, and the FE and PE exams are the real limiting factor.Macbeth wrote:
We have watered down the requirements for every other degree what makes you think engineering is immune from it?
i don't think it's sustainable nor do I think the wages enjoyed by engineering grads is sustainable. Once we manage to get more engineers into the system the wages will begin to decrease.
That was my point. I'm pessimistic about the whole thing.
How is this anything other than an illustration of the point I've been making about academic excellence being the key to all of this?Jay wrote:
How on earth can you be pessimistic? American students are getting worse at math, not better. ABET will never lower the standards because it would destroy the engineering market. They have a vested interest to maintain high standards. It keeps out the riffraff and allows the engineering industry to keep its solid reputation. The bar exam is cake compared to the FE. So is the GMAT. Trust me, the GMAT was a joke in comparison.Macbeth wrote:
That really isn't the universities problem. And we have plenty of people who manage to get through their bar exams or the GMAT eventually. It's not like there is a shortage of lawyers or MBA holders since it became the ticket to wealth and privilege.Jay wrote:
Because the thought of buildings and bridges collapsing rightfully terrifies people. That, and the FE and PE exams are the real limiting factor.
i don't think it's sustainable nor do I think the wages enjoyed by engineering grads is sustainable. Once we manage to get more engineers into the system the wages will begin to decrease.
That was my point. I'm pessimistic about the whole thing.
dedication and wether or not you actually like the subjects. Many people flunk out because they simply don't like what they're being taught and don't like the job prospects. Doing math/chem/physics all day isn't for everyone.Stimey wrote:
Everyone who went to the same school as me for 1st year engineering got weeded out.
I'm literally the only one left from about 8 classmates.
In general the dropout rate is 40%.
Anyone can do it, its just a matter of dedication.
So why has that vested interest in keeping qualification high eroded everywhere else? Do you really think a solid reputation is enough of an incentive to keep your industry together. lol just lolJay wrote:
They have a vested interest to maintain high standards. It keeps out the riffraff and allows the engineering industry to keep its solid reputation.
Last edited by Macbeth (2011-08-07 14:03:56)
Yes. Same for architecture. Or medicine. People die when we fuck up. Standards can not be lowered.Macbeth wrote:
So why has that vested interest in keep qualification high eroded everywhere else? Do you really think a solid reputation is enough of an incentive to keep your industry together. lol just lolJay wrote:
They have a vested interest to maintain high standards. It keeps out the riffraff and allows the engineering industry to keep its solid reputation.
Why should the government subsidize what should be OJT?Shocking wrote:
What needs to be done is raising the standards for all the other degrees. That and making it so that the degree is more focused on the job market rather than academic purposes only.
Where did I say the government needed to do it?Jay wrote:
Because the ABET polices the industry without the government stepping in and doing shit like watering down standards for political reasons.
Those are really easy tbh
This is what I've been saying.Shocking wrote:
What needs to be done is raising the standards for all the other degrees. That and making it so that the degree is more focused on the job market rather than academic purposes only.
I like the principle that anyone who chooses to can go straight to uni out of high school. I'd like to keep it that way, too.Jay wrote:
Why should the government subsidize what should be OJT?Shocking wrote:
What needs to be done is raising the standards for all the other degrees. That and making it so that the degree is more focused on the job market rather than academic purposes only.
Those are grade 11 level.Shocking wrote:
Those are really easy tbh
the indians and chinese are smarter than you at this stuff, mr. stanley khubrisStimey wrote:
And in the subsequent 20 years we have 10 more Chernobyls.
You would see higher academic standards if the government didn't make it so easy to attend college via loan.Bertster7 wrote:
This is what I've been saying.Shocking wrote:
What needs to be done is raising the standards for all the other degrees. That and making it so that the degree is more focused on the job market rather than academic purposes only.
Raise academic standards required for degrees. But everyone keeps trying to claim I'm saying the government should be enforcing all these changes. I have no interest in who implements the changes, but would like to see higher academic standards.
Stimey wrote:
Those are grade 11 level.Shocking wrote:
Those are really easy tbh