And cunt of the week goes to...

2011-08-05 01:24:49

#226

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
I wasn't talking about Americans in Norway though, but Norwegians themselves. As Shocking said, there is a lot less individuality because of the pressure to conform. Political views might be liberal, but you behave like social conservatives towards anyone that deviates. This is what appeals to lowing, the closedminded push for conformity.

Pressure to conform? Less individuality?

Have you even been to Europe?

From what I've seen the US is highly conformist, the difference is you guys aspire to fit into a different jelly-mould from Europe.
Get 9-5 job/buy truck to express your individuality/buy gun to prove you love freedom/marry your prom date/buy house in suburbia/support local sports team/vote for whoever your dad did etc etc. Its just a different kind of conformism.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 15:37:44

#227

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Jay wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Jay wrote:

How would an American style conservative be treated? Would he be socially ostracized? His opinions marginalized? Would people attempt to re-educate him?
Americans are quite well received in Norway ... we are long time friends and allies and set aside petty differences like politics when we meet

With that said I have to two Americans in the group of people I see on a regular basis, maybe not close friends but I see them both on occasion ... they live in Norway and have no plans going back to the US, they also used to be Republicans and at the risk of sounding like a condecending douche both of them told me they "woke up" after being in Norway as to how Americans are looking at them from the outside ... they are no longer Republicans, they voted and cheered for Obama last election!

Jay wrote:
Would people attempt to re-educate him?
Nope
I wasn't talking about Americans in Norway though, but Norwegians themselves. As Shocking said, there is a lot less individuality because of the pressure to conform. Political views might be liberal, but you behave like social conservatives towards anyone that deviates. This is what appeals to lowing, the closedminded push for conformity.

close minded conformity? Sorry, I am pro drug legalization, pro-same sex marriage, I am pro environment for the most part, I am not religious at all, yet I hold TRUE conservative views on just about everything else regarding our economy, our govt. and personal responsibility over this notion that somehow your problems is a reflection on society, making it OUR problem.

2011-08-05 18:00:51

#228

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6651|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
I wasn't talking about Americans in Norway though, but Norwegians themselves. As Shocking said, there is a lot less individuality because of the pressure to conform. Political views might be liberal, but you behave like social conservatives towards anyone that deviates. This is what appeals to lowing, the closedminded push for conformity.
Pressure to conform? Less individuality?

Have you even been to Europe?

From what I've seen the US is highly conformist, the difference is you guys aspire to fit into a different jelly-mould from Europe.
Get 9-5 job/buy truck to express your individuality/buy gun to prove you love freedom/marry your prom date/buy house in suburbia/support local sports team/vote for whoever your dad did etc etc. Its just a different kind of conformism.

You've described a minority, caricature of America. GG.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-08-05 18:11:57

#229

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
I wasn't talking about Americans in Norway though, but Norwegians themselves. As Shocking said, there is a lot less individuality because of the pressure to conform. Political views might be liberal, but you behave like social conservatives towards anyone that deviates. This is what appeals to lowing, the closedminded push for conformity.
Pressure to conform? Less individuality?

Have you even been to Europe?

From what I've seen the US is highly conformist, the difference is you guys aspire to fit into a different jelly-mould from Europe.
Get 9-5 job/buy truck to express your individuality/buy gun to prove you love freedom/marry your prom date/buy house in suburbia/support local sports team/vote for whoever your dad did etc etc. Its just a different kind of conformism.
You've described a minority, caricature of America. GG.

Just as Jay did wrt Europe
QQ

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 18:16:25

#230

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6651|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

Pressure to conform? Less individuality?

Have you even been to Europe?

From what I've seen the US is highly conformist, the difference is you guys aspire to fit into a different jelly-mould from Europe.
Get 9-5 job/buy truck to express your individuality/buy gun to prove you love freedom/marry your prom date/buy house in suburbia/support local sports team/vote for whoever your dad did etc etc. Its just a different kind of conformism.
You've described a minority, caricature of America. GG.
Just as Jay did wrt Europe
QQ

But Jay was right...

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-08-05 18:20:49

#231

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

So was I, its not as small a minority as you think - based on what I've seen on Cops

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 18:24:51

#232

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6651|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
So was I, its not as small a minority as you think - based on what I've seen on Cops

I live here...in this country of over 300 million people. The sample on Cops is statistically insignificant. And you know it.

It is a small minority. And I live in a state where it would be more prevalent than others...

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-08-05 18:26:01

#233

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6808|Mountains of NC

just hope he doesn't watch repo games

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2011-08-05 18:28:48

#234

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
So was I, its not as small a minority as you think - based on what I've seen on Cops
I live here...in this country of over 300 million people. The sample on Cops is statistically insignificant. And you know it.

It is a small minority. And I live in a state where it would be more prevalent than others...

Small minority?

Given the F150 is still the best-selling 'passenger vehicle' in the US I know you're lying.

the Ford F-Series was the best-selling nameplate in 2010 for the 34th straight year

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/amer … -2010-are/

Now tell me thats not conformists buying into a stereotype.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-08-05 18:30:29)

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 18:34:19

#235

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6651|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
So was I, its not as small a minority as you think - based on what I've seen on Cops
I live here...in this country of over 300 million people. The sample on Cops is statistically insignificant. And you know it.

It is a small minority. And I live in a state where it would be more prevalent than others...
Small minority?

Given the F150 is still the best-selling 'passenger vehicle' in the US I know you're lying.
the Ford F-Series was the best-selling nameplate in 2010 for the 34th straight year
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/amer … -2010-are/

Now tell me thats not conformists buying into a stereotype.

Considering it's also used widely as a work/fleet vehicle...

And you had more than "buy a truck" in your stereotype, btw.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-08-05 18:40:55

#236

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Dilbert, have you ever been here? This country is as diverse as it gets. Would you describe America as homogenous? No way. Yet that is a word often used to describe countries like Norway. They're essentially conservative, closed societies, just like you would experience in any small, relatively isolated town.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-05 18:59:58

#237

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

comparing a federation of states spanning a continent to a small, same-climate, same-people state like norway and then concluding that norway is relatively more "homogeneous"... you guys poli sci majors by any chance?

Last edited by Uzique (2011-08-05 19:00:18)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:03:19

#238

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

also i don't agree that european states are more "closeminded" and "conforming" than america in culture and society. simply not true, tbh. sure in the last 25 years since neo-liberalism and the rise of the market above the state, politics and the social spheres have tended to become more conservative... but this is reactionary behaviour against EU opening and globalisation, generally. i wouldn't say outsiders are ostracized or the like. individual nations are just more conscious of trying to preserve their own identity and society against the external supra-national forces of the market.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:14:35

#239

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Dilbert, have you ever been here? This country is as diverse as it gets. Would you describe America as homogenous? No way. Yet that is a word often used to describe countries like Norway. They're essentially conservative, closed societies, just like you would experience in any small, relatively isolated town.

Yes I have. While the country may be diverse the people aren't.

And comparing Norway to an entire continent, then using the example of Norway and extrapolating the result across the whole of Europe is not even close to having an argument.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 19:23:22

#240

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Uzique wrote:
also i don't agree that european states are more "closeminded" and "conforming" than america in culture and society. simply not true, tbh. sure in the last 25 years since neo-liberalism and the rise of the market above the state, politics and the social spheres have tended to become more conservative... but this is reactionary behaviour against EU opening and globalisation, generally. i wouldn't say outsiders are ostracized or the like. individual nations are just more conscious of trying to preserve their own identity and society against the external supra-national forces of the market.

I'm not talking about outsiders. I'm talking about the guy that decides to dye his hair green, or realizes he's gay, or holds political views that differ from the mainstream. In my experience, the groups that preach tolerance and diversity are the ones that feel the least comfortable when that conformity is breached. "We're so tolerant" means "we'll keep our bigotry hidden in public and the snubs will be less overt".

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-05 19:26:08

#241

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

The big issue at present is countries trying to preserve their diverse identities and internal diversity against EU-isation of everything.
Not sure how that translates to "all europeans are socialist mind-clones who hate freedom" but whatever...

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 19:27:43

#242

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
The big issue at present is countries trying to preserve their diverse identities and internal diversity against EU-isation of everything.
Not sure how that translates to "all europeans are socialist mind-clones who hate freedom" but whatever...

The backlash against Arabs is pretty ridiculous from the outside. They make up what? 1-2% of the population?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-05 19:29:11

#243

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

what so you think european countries are backwards and conservative when it comes to alternative lifestyles, homosexuality, or political plurality? dude you're living in a country that was still racist on paper until the 60's, a country that still fears mexicans and other cultures as if they were a fatally spreading-virus, and a country where it's still illegal to be gay and married in many states. what's your point? i see no evidence of european or scandinavian countries being socially conservative in that sense. we were flamboyantly gay and alternative and avant-garde in the 1700's and 1800's. we were politically and culturally radical, plural, revolutionary and downright marxist in the 1900's. i don't really 'get' what you're talking about. it is true that europe's biggest terrorist threat is probably from far-right cells... but these have existed forever, and america has them, too. that statement is only being bandied around, anyway, because the media was shocked and upset that it couldn't add to its 'islamic worldwide terror network!' meta-narrative. it's not as if these far-right groups have any mainstream influence or notoriety, at all. they're fringe whackos and don't represent common social feeling at all.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:30:54

#244

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
The big issue at present is countries trying to preserve their diverse identities and internal diversity against EU-isation of everything.
Not sure how that translates to "all europeans are socialist mind-clones who hate freedom" but whatever...
The backlash against Arabs is pretty ridiculous from the outside. They make up what? 1-2% of the population?

backlash against arabs where, exactly? they've integrated pretty well in mostly all of western europe. that and we have several hundred years of religious war and historical enmity to deal with... i think it's fine. you're really exaggerating the extent of anti-arab sentiment. don't read the norwegian whacko's manifesto with such naive belief.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:31:55

#245

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
The big issue at present is countries trying to preserve their diverse identities and internal diversity against EU-isation of everything.
Not sure how that translates to "all europeans are socialist mind-clones who hate freedom" but whatever...
The backlash against Arabs is pretty ridiculous from the outside. They make up what? 1-2% of the population?

What backlash against Arabs?

Most muslims in Europe aren't Arabs, if thats what you mean, apart from that they're an expanding minority group resented by the indigenous people - no surprises there really.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 19:34:43

#246

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

the only anti-arab/muslim sentiment i can think of is this norwegian 'white templar' bullshit, which is essentially about 10 people at an imaginative conspiratorial stretch, and possibly the legal legislative-anecdote of france banning the burka... which has nothing to do with 'arab hate' and everything to do with trying to retain some equal national identity in a country dealing with a huge post-colonial influx of piednoirs and arabs with free passage. when your demographics change so drastically in such a short period of time, i don't really see any problem with, say, removing all religious symbols from public dress.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:39:13

#247

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

There's a reasonably large sub-culture of racists across Europe though, plus the Catholics are keeping quiet for now.

France is thoroughly racist whatever appearances they might give.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-05 19:39:44

#248

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Uzique wrote:
the only anti-arab/muslim sentiment i can think of is this norwegian 'white templar' bullshit, which is essentially about 10 people at an imaginative conspiratorial stretch, and possibly the legal legislative-anecdote of france banning the burka... which has nothing to do with 'arab hate' and everything to do with trying to retain some equal national identity in a country dealing with a huge post-colonial influx of piednoirs and arabs with free passage. when your demographics change so drastically in such a short period of time, i don't really see any problem with, say, removing all religious symbols from public dress.

You're kind of proving my point. Social identity is what I mean about the cause behind people being socially ostracized for deviation.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-05 19:42:52

#249

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6711

i don't see the difference between europe and america on this matter... europe has cultural heritage and history so people hate one another because their fathers did. america has freedom from cultural and social mores and great individual freedom, so people hate one another because they've used that freedom differently (normally in the form of wealth and materialism). they're normal social stratifications and divisions that will always arise in demographics. yours are established mostly by wealth and power relations - we have a long history of cultural plurality and attempts at coexistence. choose your poison.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-08-05 19:44:34

#250

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Social identity is what I mean about the cause behind people being socially ostracized for deviation.

For example?

I see no difference between Europe and America in that respect.

Fuck Israel

BF2S Forums And cunt of the week goes to...

Jay wrote:

Jay wrote:

Varegg wrote:

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FEOS wrote:

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FEOS wrote:

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Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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