And cunt of the week goes to...

2011-07-30 04:05:17

#101

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:
lowing wrote:
ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR, if the rich could keep more of their money they would have more to reinvest, buy all of their toys, build their businesses, put people to work, creating jobs, generating more revenue for govt.
Not sure what point you're making, or if you understand the existing system.

If they reinvest money from a business they do keep it, tax free.

Its not as if people take a payout, pay income tax on it and then reinvest the remainder in their own business.
If they do then they're idiots or their accountants are idiots.

Cutting income tax encourages people to reinvest less, take more out of their business and hire fewer people.

Short-termists don't want you to know this though.

reinvest includes more than back into their business. It includes back into their communities. Rich people spend more money than we do. That spending puts people to work. Buying their boats, planes, mansions, etc. puts a lot of people to work building and maintaining those things.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/st … ng-america

2011-07-31 03:35:46

#102

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

You go ahead and continue believing that.

Fuck Israel

2011-07-31 04:00:16

#103

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:
You go ahead and continue believing that.

ok, and you go ahead and continue to believe a government can tax society into prosperity.

Last edited by lowing (2011-07-31 04:04:54)

2011-07-31 05:14:25

#104

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

How is your economy so screwed then lowing?

Fuck Israel

2011-07-31 05:22:06

#105

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:
How is your economy so screwed then lowing?

Not sure how you can take a country like the US, that has risen from a new nation to a world super power in less than 200 years and say our economy does not work. It is cyclic dilbert, just like everyone else's. It is hardly the end of the world.

Now please, explain how a govt. can tax a society into prosperity.

Last edited by lowing (2011-07-31 07:04:58)

2011-07-31 05:27:38

#106

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5419|Sydney

Macbeth wrote:
Everyone in Congress.

Is it still this, or is it narrowing down?

2011-07-31 11:48:36

#107

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6821|the dank(super) side of Oregon

you see, dilbert, the top 20% of Americans only own about 85% of this country. obviously, that's not enough for them to really feel comfortable reinvesting in all the little people. if only they had a little more economic influence -then even I could be one of the hundreds of millions who build their mansions and keep their Ferraris and Maybachs in good working order. At least they've got lowing to remind us of how great it could be.

2011-07-31 13:11:59

#108

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6651|'Murka

Weird. That's roughly the same proportion of wage earners to income taxes collected...

Itsaconspiracy!

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-07-31 14:18:39

#109

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6831

Morrissey, the washed-up, out of date by a quarter century, has-been, proto-emo, depressive pop singer ... has a malformed opinion on something?

1) I'm less than shocked

2) The Give-O-Fuck-O-Meter is pegged at zero.

3) I wish I had a quarter for everytime some has-been pop singer/actor/producer splatters their partially digested brain-vomit all over the general public. I'd be richer than the US Federal Government right now!

2011-07-31 14:20:45

#110

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6201|Places 'n such

I've got 1.20 in my pocket. I'm richer than the US govt.

Last edited by presidentsheep (2011-07-31 14:21:26)

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-07-31 14:27:43

#111

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6831

presidentsheep wrote:
I've got 1.20 in my pocket. I'm richer than the US govt.

Apple Has More Money On Hand Than The US Government

2011-07-31 16:47:30

#112

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6393|what

rdx-fx wrote:
presidentsheep wrote:
I've got 1.20 in my pocket. I'm richer than the US govt.
Apple Has More Money On Hand Than The US Government

But Apple can't print more money. (lol)

2011-07-31 16:56:10

#113

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5419|Sydney

AussieReaper wrote:
rdx-fx wrote:
presidentsheep wrote:
I've got 1.20 in my pocket. I'm richer than the US govt.
Apple Has More Money On Hand Than The US Government
But Apple can't print more money. (lol)

Surely there's an app for that

2011-08-01 00:16:01

#114

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7050|Nårvei

lowing wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
How is your economy so screwed then lowing?
Not sure how you can take a country like the US, that has risen from a new nation to a world super power in less than 200 years and say our economy does not work. It is cyclic dilbert, just like everyone else's. It is hardly the end of the world.

Now please, explain how a govt. can tax a society into prosperity.

Tax is a delicate thing lowing, you don't have to choose between 0% and 100% tax ... there is finding the middle ground and seeing results from the taxes that are paid ... if you don't see results you are more reluctant to pay taxes, if you get value for money you are willing to pay more.

And that super power of yours are shaking in its foundation, it was fine for 150 years and then greed entered the equation, extreme consumerism entered the equation and companies without moral and ethics entered the equation ... if it took so long to bring down Enron clearly there are mechanisms in government that doesn't work as intended, you guys have made so many laws the last 50 years that accommodates greedy people to leach off a system that was the mother of capitalism and growth for so many years ... you need to take a step back and analyze what the fuck is happening because it doesn't work any longer as it was intended, unless you count the 2% that makes hundreds of millions and takes it out of the country, outsource work so millions of Americans are thrown into poverty etc etc ... I don't measure that as a success ... your politicians are out of sync with its population and it seems they don't even care about you anymore ...

And this week those 50 years are about to pay a visit ... the story of scrooge comes to mind comparing your fucked up economy the last decades.

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-08-01 00:33:32

#115

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5826

You did a fine job of squeezing in a lot of platitudes, inaccuracies, and misunderstandings into one post there, Varegg. Every sentence is just wrong.

2011-08-01 01:28:09

#116

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6239|...

Jay wrote:
Shocking wrote:
The problem now is that progressive tax is seen as a given. Every time the government seems to run into trouble, I hear quite large parties on the left side of the political spectrum and their constituency shout "increase taxes to the rich". Which, for the rich, is already at 52%. People have to realise that the idealised state of "free healthcare, free education, welfare programs, gov. investment in green technologies" is completely unsustainable. It requires enormous economic growth which we don't have. Just look at the healthcare budget in itself; since the mid 70s it's been growing by an average of 8% annually in our country, and with an aging population it has to grow faster and evermore. Up until now security has been footing the bill for all the rest as is evident all throughout Europe; the budgets for, in particular, Defense, have shrunk annually for the last 20-30 years.

The reality is that we need to strike a balance in between personal accountability and what is possible in the 'idealist's world', and the public doesn't seem willing to do just that. What's the result going to be? A crash.
Well, one of the primary issues with the idealists world (as you put it) is that not only does the way it is funded reduce motivation, the actual act itself of providing such wide ranging social nets also reduces motivation, at the bottom. People generally work as hard as they have to to get by and no more. If they realize they have to work to pay the bills and provide themselves and their kids with health care, they will. If you then remove that responsibility and burden from them, they'll feel less stress and be less inclined to chase jobs. The primary motivator for most people is not greed, it's getting through the day with as little burden and responsibility as possible so they can get back to doing whatever it is they do in their free time. Over time what you create is a lazier society where the burden of actually doing stuff is placed on a smaller and smaller segment of the society. That is what lowing and I are talking about when we talk about the rich being punished. Socialism is a wonderful system for slackers and a terrible system for anyone with an ounce of motivation. (Which is why the majority of educated lefties that I've met in my life hold degrees in English, Political Science etc. They took the easy path in college and have no hopes of ever attaining the wealth they feel they are do. Their jealousy leads to 'tax the rich!' and advocacy of socialism and/or communism. They are the ultimate slackers and would benefit immensely.).

I don't agree that government funded healthcare is a bad thing per se, sometimes people get unlucky and contract something which cost tens of thousands of dollars to treat and may leave someone disabled. I don't know how much the various insurances in your country cover, but I doubt many people will be able to afford very good ones. Originally the healthcare system in Europe was meant to give some relief to the most unlucky people at the bottom of society, which I think is a good thing... obviously though that system as it is now has many flaws and needs a complete overhaul. Regardless, the basic principle is something I agree with; that healthcare should be accessible and affordable to everyone.

Other than that, yes, too many safety nets are a bad thing. If not for the cost, for what it does to a society.

Last edited by Shocking (2011-08-01 01:30:46)

inane little opines

2011-08-01 01:52:00

#117

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

lowing wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but people do not fall into line like this. First, even if they got rich through govt. programs, they are gunna wanna keep it, and if they know they got to give more than half of their earnings away 1 of 2 things will happen, they simply will not strive to earn it, or they pack up their shit and move. After all, they are rich and can afford to do that. No one is more than happy to work hard for someone elses benefit. People just are not wired like that.

right now, here in the US we have taxpayer covered education all the way through HS, plus govt. grants and loans for those that qualify, and middle class folks don't qualify, yet still, we are overwhelmed with those that "don't have the same opportunity" or the are "being kept down by the man". There is a plague of entitlement in our country and history has shown the more you give, the more they want and the more they demand and the more life is "unfair" for them. Notice how they are asking for entitlement and not a job? Think about that. Your system, in fantasyland, is great. It is not however, real world.

We don't seem to have that problem in Norway, despite having one of the highest tax rates in the world. The maximum tax is around 54%, and a large portion of the population (around 20% I think) pay this. Norway is also the country with the highest average retirement age in Europe.

As Varegg said, people don't flee the country because they believe they are getting value for money with their taxes (in addition to a feeling of 'home' and whatnot, but yeah)

There are many, many things I'd change about the Norwegian system, mind, but it's more to show that high taxes doesn't have to mean people stop working or move.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2011-08-01 01:59:26

#118

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Reciprocity wrote:
you see, dilbert, the top 20% of Americans only own about 85% of this country. obviously, that's not enough for them to really feel comfortable reinvesting in all the little people. if only they had a little more economic influence -then even I could be one of the hundreds of millions who build their mansions and keep their Ferraris and Maybachs in good working order. At least they've got lowing to remind us of how great it could be.

Well dammit, I suggest cutting taxes for the rich then, that'll solve it.

OT: I have another candidate

The founder of France's far-right National Front party, Jean-Marie Le Pen, has stood by by his contention that Norway's government was more to blame for the recent massacre than the right-wing extremist who carried out the attacks.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/le-pen-h … z1TlapfNQ7

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-08-01 02:10:41)

Fuck Israel

2011-08-01 03:35:09

#119

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Macbeth wrote:
You did a fine job of squeezing in a lot of platitudes, inaccuracies, and misunderstandings into one post there, Varegg. Every sentence is just wrong.

It's about to enter the Dumb Post Hall of Fame.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-01 03:43:49

#120

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5826

Are we friends again?

2011-08-01 03:52:07

#121

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
You did a fine job of squeezing in a lot of platitudes, inaccuracies, and misunderstandings into one post there, Varegg. Every sentence is just wrong.
It's about to enter the Dumb Post Hall of Fame.

Given how well the Norwegian system is working, and how badly the US system is failing, you might want to try to get a grasp of what Varegg is saying.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-01 04:10:42

#122

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
You did a fine job of squeezing in a lot of platitudes, inaccuracies, and misunderstandings into one post there, Varegg. Every sentence is just wrong.
It's about to enter the Dumb Post Hall of Fame.
Given how well the Norwegian system is working, and how badly the US system is failing, you might want to try to get a grasp of what Varegg is saying.

A population of 4.9 million people sitting on the worlds fifth largest oil deposits? An African-style Kleptocracy couldn't even fuck up that advantage. Norway is simply lucky, and it has fuckall to do with their economic system.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-08-01 04:12:50

#123

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

How big were America's oil deposits?

Did any long-term good come out of them or were they burnt up to no useful purpose?

Germany has no oil, and a similar system to Norway, they seem to be doing OK.

Fuck Israel

2011-08-01 04:13:03

#124

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:

It's about to enter the Dumb Post Hall of Fame.
Given how well the Norwegian system is working, and how badly the US system is failing, you might want to try to get a grasp of what Varegg is saying.
A population of 4.9 million people sitting on the worlds fifth largest oil deposits? An African-style Kleptocracy couldn't even fuck up that advantage. Norway is simply lucky, and it has fuckall to do with their economic system.

Same as saying everyone should follow Dubai's economic growth lel.

HOW YOU GONNA PAY YOUR LOANS NOW HAJJI, THATS RIGHT OIL PRICES PLUMMETED LOL

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2011-08-01 04:15:39

#125

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:

It's about to enter the Dumb Post Hall of Fame.
Given how well the Norwegian system is working, and how badly the US system is failing, you might want to try to get a grasp of what Varegg is saying.
A population of 4.9 million people sitting on the worlds fifth largest oil deposits? An African-style Kleptocracy couldn't even fuck up that advantage. Norway is simply lucky, and it has fuckall to do with their economic system.

I agree, we've been extremely lucky, but Norway's used the resources well and intelligently.

Having oil isn't enough. Just look at what the Netherlands managed in the 70s. You need a good system to make it last for generations.

BF2S Forums And cunt of the week goes to...

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Shocking wrote:

lowing wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

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