well yeah, both parties suck and I'm actually a registered Republican. I just think along situations and results than anything else and going by this situation...
The congressional dems are only in it to make sure this talk doesn't happen again until after the next election cycle. Barack is the only one who has even hinted at a tax hike.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Is it too early for a "Fucking finally!" yet?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Calm down old timer.13urnzz wrote:
i was alive during Watergate. Watergate is what started me reading the newspaper.
unlike some bullet point dittoheads on this forum, i formed an opinion on the words 'Republican' and 'Democrat' before they both sold out.
at least, the words what they meant before what they mean today.
Who is going to take the blame if America's credit rating is downgraded, and the subsequent increase in interest payments?
It should probably be downgraded whether or not there's a default.
Fuck Israel
There's glimmer of light at the end of this tunnel perhaps. You would think a deal needs to be brokered NOW.Spark wrote:
Is it too early for a "Fucking finally!" yet?
You're missing the big picture.Jaekus wrote:
There's glimmer of light at the end of this tunnel perhaps. You would think a deal needs to be brokered NOW.Spark wrote:
Is it too early for a "Fucking finally!" yet?
Whats important is that politicians get to go on tv and appear-gravelly voiced and statesman-like as they throw mud at each other, and never mind jobs, businesses and the whole economy really are on the line here.
As soon as a deal is reached their publicity ends, so there is zero motivation to make a deal.
How is this so hard to understand?
Fuck Israel
That's not the big picture.
That's just politics.
That's them missing the big picture.
That's just politics.
That's them missing the big picture.
The publicity will not end until after the 2012 election .. or longer depending on what happens.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
You calm down cream puff.Dilbert_X wrote:
Calm down old timer.13urnzz wrote:
i was alive during Watergate. Watergate is what started me reading the newspaper.
unlike some bullet point dittoheads on this forum, i formed an opinion on the words 'Republican' and 'Democrat' before they both sold out.
at least, the words what they meant before what they mean today.
Who is going to take the blame if America's credit rating is downgraded, and the subsequent increase in interest payments?
It should probably be downgraded whether or not there's a default.
The rates have been extremely low for a long time. A rate increase isnt always a bad thing. For example low rates haven't done much in the way of greasing the lending wheels. People are going to buy (if at all) now simply for the fact that housing has dropped so much. Obviously it's a buyers market. Even a full point isn't going to deter the buyer when homes have dropped up to 40% in value.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I was talking about the interest on America's national debt, not home-loans.Kmar wrote:
The rates have been extremely low for a long time. A rate increase isnt always a bad thing. For example low rates haven't done much in the way of greasing the lending wheels. People are going to buy (if at all) now simply for the fact that housing has dropped so much. Obviously it's a buyers market. Even a full point isn't going to deter the buyer when homes have dropped up to 40% in value.
Fuck Israel
You realize they're tied right?Dilbert_X wrote:
I was talking about the interest on America's national debt, not home-loans.Kmar wrote:
The rates have been extremely low for a long time. A rate increase isnt always a bad thing. For example low rates haven't done much in the way of greasing the lending wheels. People are going to buy (if at all) now simply for the fact that housing has dropped so much. Obviously it's a buyers market. Even a full point isn't going to deter the buyer when homes have dropped up to 40% in value.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Are they?
You're sure?
I wouldn't say 'tied', related maybe.
Home ownership is in any case irrelevant to whether the govt can pay its debts.
You're sure?
I wouldn't say 'tied', related maybe.
Home ownership is in any case irrelevant to whether the govt can pay its debts.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-07-31 01:30:47)
Fuck Israel
The decision to raise or lower federal interest rates does a have a lot to do with the fed's ability to pay it's debts. How do you think they control the flow of money now? When the fed rates are lower the dollar is devalued. When the dollar is devalued the cost of gas and every bit of merchandise that needs to be transported from one place to another goes up. You can imagine the impact that has on virtually every aspect of the economy. Housing also plays a major role in our economy, including employment and generating tax revenue. That is why the housing market is almost always mentioned when discussing economic indicators. You need a strong economy to pay back your debts.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Fixed.Kmar wrote:
People are saying this is the biggest government clusterfuck they've seen. People that were alive during watergate. I'm sure there's a bit lot of sensationalism happening. But ridiculous none-the-less.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Is it not like this every time the debt limit needs to be raised and the President doesn't control congress?
Does seem more serious this time though, due to the absolute level of debt and rate its rising.
Does seem more serious this time though, due to the absolute level of debt and rate its rising.
Fuck Israel
i was registered republican when I was 17 lol
Tu Stultus Es
This probably isn't breaking news for you guys, but anyhow...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-31/u … lt/2818458American politicians are close to a last-minute $US3 trillion deal to raise the borrowing limit and assure financial markets that the United States will avoid a potentially catastrophic default.
In tit for tat votes, Democrats and Republicans have rejected each other's debt plans in the US Senate and House.
With Washington running out of cash and just three days left before the Treasury deadline of August 2 to lift America's borrowing limit, Republicans say it is up to the president to end the crisis.
Prospects improved for a significant package to cut the US deficit after rival leaders re-opened stalled talks with the White House.
"We're very close," said Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, the top Senate Republican who is playing a key role in the debt ceiling negotiations.
He told CNN the deal to involved $US3 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years, no tax increases, and creation of a joint congressional committee to decide on the cuts.
But a senior White House official cautioned that a deal was "not there yet".
Mr McConnell said he hoped Senate majority leader Harry Reid, a Democrat, would be able to present an agreement soon that he can recommend to Republican senators.
Asked if a deal would emerge on Sunday, he said: "Soon."
Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said it seemed clear that the emerging deal would raise the debt ceiling enough "so we don't have to come back to this until 2013".
A key demand of president Barack Obama was to not take up the issue in 2012, an election year.
Mr Reid pushed back a key procedural vote on a debt limit plan by 12 hours to 1.00pm (local time) on Sunday, buying time for both sides to hammer out details before Asian markets open.
"There are negotiations going on at the White House now on a solution that will avert a catastrophic default on the nation's debt," Mr Reid said late on Saturday (local time).
"There is still a distance to go."
The political gridlock over how to reduce the US deficit and raise the debt ceiling has put the United States at risk of losing its top-notch AAA credit rating.
Japan, the second largest holder of US debt, was increasingly alarmed that the United States would miss its deadline, sources familiar with Japan's fiscal affairs said.
I was registered Democrat and voted for Gore and Kerry.eleven bravo wrote:
i was registered republican when I was 17 lol
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
A balanced budget amendment has to allow for emergency deficit spending...for those very reasons. But it has to require a supermajority vote to do it. That's why some say a balanced budget amendment is pointless, as they will merely find "emergencies" to justify their egregious spending.Macbeth wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with this has much as I should have so my knowledge of what has been going on is a bit shakey. From what I understand of where we are right now- The Reid plan increases the debt ceiling by 2.4 trillion and makes an equal amount in cuts but doesn't reform entitlements and doesn't increase revenue at all. The Boehner plan increases the ceiling by a little over 1 trillion and adds a balanced budget amendment.
If my understanding of things is correct- how the hell could the republicans claim to be serious about this? A balanced budget amendment wouldn't work at all since it wouldn't allow for disasters, wars, and other emergency spending that the country may have to make. There is also zero chance any amendment will get the amount of states needed to ratify any changes to the constitution. And even if there was enough state support for it, there isn't enough time between now and Tuesday to get it done.
So how are the republicans not the bad guys here?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
That was from one of the opinion blogs in the economist. It's (imo) the single best news source I have anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with the message. To me this is a clear cut issue of the republicans being in the wrong, they forced themselves into this situation. Yes, as you said, that's applicable for the dems as well, but imo the repubs are definitely worse in their hard turns over the last few years. Not to mention that there is a severe lack of long term planning in their party. Tax revenue has to be increased if you ever want to cope with the tsunami of baby boomers demanding not only their retirement money but medicare as well. The latter of which has to expand dramatically in the coming years. There's not enough money to go around unless the republicans would agree to some enormous cuts in the Defense budgets - I doubt they will.Jay wrote:
You really need new news sources.Shocking wrote:
http://media.economist.com/sites/defaul … WWD000.jpg
Last edited by Shocking (2011-07-31 14:20:24)
inane little opines
And my prediction is;Jaekus wrote:
You can't trust either of them, yet there's no one else to turn to.
After a last minute live-on-CSPAN deal is negotiated by an "across the aisle" bi-partisan group,
and after a few rounds of talking heads recriminations,
the final blame for the econopocalypseagedddongate is going to be laid at the feet of the Tea Party.
Jackasses and Pachyderms don't want no competition in their two-party system here.
And Palin has had her 15 minutes. She gets to go down as the Tea Party poster child.
so its not the tea parties fault?
Tu Stultus Es
Oh, there's plenty of blame to pass around.eleven bravo wrote:
so its not the tea parties fault?
Just think the Dems and Pubs are going to scapegoat the living shit out of the Tea Party wingnuts
The Dems are already using it as an excuse to move further to the right. The left leaning voters might not like it, but the Dems can just hold up a Tea Party candidate and say, "really, this is who you want to vote for instead?"rdx-fx wrote:
Oh, there's plenty of blame to pass around.eleven bravo wrote:
so its not the tea parties fault?
Just think the Dems and Pubs are going to scapegoat the living shit out of the Tea Party wingnuts
