BF2S Forums 77 Dead in Norway shooting.

Shocking wrote:

Response teams should be ready to go any minute after a massive bombing attack. There was a timespan of 2 hours between the bombs and the shooting spree, there's absolutely no excuse for the police / army to have acted as slowly as they did. A very tragic situation tbh.

But yes, he did pick the best spot to start shooting people. Very scary.. to be trapped on a tiny island having a man with a gun trying to kill you.

let me know of any examples of nations that have responded within 5 minutes to put a terrorist attack to a close.

thanks.

the truth of the matter is that you can never plan - except for intercepting intelligence, beforehand - to react intelligently to a plan of this scale and complexity. the idea of a team being helicoptered in some 10 minutes after the attacks begin is a huge fucking myth - just a convenient idea to keep you comfortable and feeling safe. the simple fact is that people are slow to react to such things. it's confusing, disorienting, and there's a huge shock factor. even relaying messages via emergency radio or phonecalls would take the 10 minutes. look at the recorded calls about jet hijackings and air traffic control on 9/11. didn't they take like 45 minutes of back-and-forth radio calling and consideration before they alerted NORAD, or whatever? it is a complete myth - wool over the eyes type stuff - to believe that any terrorist squad or public services group can react in 10 minutes and save your ass. when something is this well planned, and you're in the middle of it, you're basically fucked and completely on your own. the state is not a genius hive-mind.

Uzique wrote:

as already said the emergency services were on a huge alert to the bomb attacks that happened 20 miles away. that's a very small area - probably the same local jurisdiction. jens already said, live as it was happening, that they were evacuating the entire capital area, on full terror alert. it's kind of like the same thing that happened with fighter jets being scrambled on 9/11 and being engaged elsewhere with an ongoing, complicated terror attack. there's a huge element of chaos and confusion in the midst of these events, without doubt, and it's fairly absurd to say "they should have had police officers there on guard". it's fairly easy to see that the immediate emergency services reaction was to scramble all available units in the area to the (perceived) area-under-threat.

Also this. The first police at the shootjng weren't exactly special forces.

Over what timescale did the actual shooting happen?

It can take a long time to work out if an event is happening, what the response needs to be, organising the response and actually getting there.
Its unrealistic to expect to respond to this kind of thing instantly.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

i look forward to his christian-nationalist statement being released into the press soon, so i can sit here with a cheshire cat grin and you can shut the fuck up, duly corrected.

Don't bother, unless he was holding a bible and reciting verse while comitting the crime lowing will dismiss any linkage.

Well I have never stated anything except we don't know his motive, so there really isn't anything I have said that needs corrected because I have not committed to anything yet.

Shocking wrote:

I agree, just like with 9/11 the confusion and shock is probably to blame. I suppose the people who would have been responsible for dispatching any sort of anti terror team were probably too preoccupied with what was happening inside Oslo, plus that they were probably confused as well.

it even says in the news reports that the people at the camp were gathering in one place to discuss the oslo bombings. when they heard popping noises (gunshots) they were in disbelief and thought it was clearly something else-- an attack had already happened. then the guy was dressed as a police officer, telling them to gather in one place for "safety". the realisation that another attack was occurring, right there on that very island, would have been fatally far too late. emergency teams roping in from black hawks within 10 minutes is shit you should probably keep to your imagination and tom clancy novels.

Uzique wrote:

it even says in the news reports that the people at the camp were gathering in one place to discuss the oslo bombings. when they heard popping noises (gunshots) they were in disbelief and thought it was clearly something else-- an attack had already happened. then the guy was dressed as a police officer, telling them to gather in one place for "safety". the realisation that another attack was occurring, right there on that very island, would have been fatally far too late. emergency teams roping in from black hawks within 10 minutes is shit you should probably keep to your imagination and tom clancy novels.

I don't know how long it took for people to notify the authorities that someone was starting a shooting spree on the Island, granted 10 minutes was a bit extreme but I would still expect a response within the hour. Security goes on high alert immediately after an attack. I would expect that after a massive bomb attack in the capital security personnel starts getting ready. There were two hours in between the bombing and the shooting in the afternoon on a work day. I'd assume that should have been enough time to assemble a response team.

Alright, I agree. Plus the fact that this has never happened in Norway so I doubt they have extensively prepared for this sort of situation.

Shocking wrote:

Alright, I agree. Plus the fact that this has never happened in Norway so I doubt they have extensively prepared for this sort of situation.

scandinavian countries have a pretty ugly problem with nationalism and skinheads, etc. quite the history of it. however monitoring these (seemingly) docile hate-groups and preparing for a double-edged attack are two very different things. i doubt they had much idea that a bunch of white-pride morons posting hate rhetoric on the internet would go and shoot 75 kids to make a point.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I would have thought Norway would have planned for an AQ attack.
Even so response times are hard to fix.

They did. Response times for the bomb were exceptional.

They've probably planned for shootings like this as well, but as Uzique said, they are two completely seperate scenarios and handling both at the same time is extremely dificult.

Just heard from my last close friend on the island, she's okay. Thankfully. My parents know a lot of the parents of the children on the island, but we don't really have control of everyone.. No reports of victims. Everyone's just tense, really. Police fear that the number of casualties will grow quite a bit.


I can't help but praise our primes minister. He's stood up as a solid leader, standing strong and leading the country despite having lost several friends, the children of some of his closest, co-workers and large parts of his youth party. Thoroughly impressed.

Jenspm wrote:

Just heard from my last close friend on the island, she's okay. Thankfully. My parents know a lot of the parents of the children on the island, but we don't really have control of everyone.. No reports of victims. Everyone's just tense, really. Police fear that the number of casualties will grow quite a bit.

Hard to tell how many simply drowned trying to flee cause the bodies will take awhile to recover.

Spark wrote:

AQ targets and the kind of targets a skinhead would pick are different, though. It's actually what twigged me to point towards not-AQ.

Probably, then again AQ have bombed govt buildings eg across Africa, and attacked vulnerable civilian targets eg Mumbai.

Norway was expecting an attack, the ruling party which went gung-ho into Afghanistan should have done some risk analysis.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-07-23 05:40:36)

Shocking wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I would have thought Norway would have planned for an AQ attack.
Even so response times are hard to fix.

They did. Response times for the bomb were exceptional.

They've probably planned for shootings like this as well, but as Uzique said, they are two completely seperate scenarios and handling both at the same time is extremely dificult.

Just heard from my last close friend on the island, she's okay. Thankfully. My parents know a lot of the parents of the children on the island, but we don't really have control of everyone.. No reports of victims. Everyone's just tense, really. Police fear that the number of casualties will grow quite a bit.


I can't help but praise our primes minister. He's stood up as a solid leader, standing strong and leading the country despite having lost several friends, the children of some of his closest, co-workers and large parts of his youth party. Thoroughly impressed.

How many people were there on the island in total?

around 600

The bombing made me think of AQ but the shooting spree had me doubting that. Terrorists with their roots in Islamic / Middle East extremism generally don't care who they kill, and generally target civillians. These attacks were clearly politically motivated.