BF2S Forums A boom in corporate profits, a bust in jobs, wages

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Again, that's just going to raise the cost of consumer goods. Same problem. We love those low priced imports.

Increasing the cost of consumer goods that are imported. Cars for example. The domestically priced cars won't rise in price and be more competitive.


Lowing, the above works because companies that can't compete die out and you have a monopoly. Tariffs increase competition, so what if they prop up an inferior competitor, if the inferior is only a dollar value?

Because the inferior is not only the dollar value. THe product itself will be inferior. Companies that can't compete should die out.

I do not want a govt. leading me down a path that has fixed the market that leaves me really only a few shitty choices. Buy the cheap, over priced POS. or buy the even more over priced one that I can't really afford, ( we see the results of that thinking) or buy nothing. The companies should stand on their own merit. not what a govt. props them up to be.

Then consider letting the US companies die out. Because the other major players are acting uncompetitively. China, India and Japan for example.

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Increasing the cost of consumer goods that are imported. Cars for example. The domestically priced cars won't rise in price and be more competitive.


Lowing, the above works because companies that can't compete die out and you have a monopoly. Tariffs increase competition, so what if they prop up an inferior competitor, if the inferior is only a dollar value?

Because the inferior is not only the dollar value. THe product itself will be inferior. Companies that can't compete should die out.

I do not want a govt. leading me down a path that has fixed the market that leaves me really only a few shitty choices. Buy the cheap, over priced POS. or buy the even more over priced one that I can't really afford, ( we see the results of that thinking) or buy nothing. The companies should stand on their own merit. not what a govt. props them up to be.

Then consider letting the US companies die out. Because the other major players are acting uncompetitively. China, India and Japan for example.

This.

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Because the inferior is not only the dollar value. THe product itself will be inferior. Companies that can't compete should die out.

I do not want a govt. leading me down a path that has fixed the market that leaves me really only a few shitty choices. Buy the cheap, over priced POS. or buy the even more over priced one that I can't really afford, ( we see the results of that thinking) or buy nothing. The companies should stand on their own merit. not what a govt. props them up to be.

Then consider letting the US companies die out. Because the other major players are acting uncompetitively. China, India and Japan for example.

How are they acting uncompetitively? Those companies wouldn't have die out of they didn't have to consider what they didn't have to share their profits with the US govt.

Kmar wrote:

Lower relative to say .. the US. However if you intentionally devalue your currency on the world scale, and keep inflation in check at home with incredible growth, that lower wage actually goes far locally.

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

If the US dies out, it will be at the hands of big govt. which is why I am for govt. staying out of the market place, or anything else really. I think the economy is self leveling if the govt. would stop playing with it.

It's not that simple. Maybe if it were just one world govmt (or no governments for that matter). However, if the US government refuses to react to another government's asymmetrical (financial) attack on our economy then we'll surely fall.

and how is that other govt. conducting an asymmetrical attack on our economy? I mean what are they doing that we can't?

Well if we were to do that.. have the government step in (like taxing the shit out of imports) it would go against your opinion of no government involvement.

Jaekus wrote:

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

and how is that other govt. conducting an asymmetrical attack on our economy? I mean what are they doing that we can't?

Well if we were to do that.. have the government step in (like taxing the shit out of imports) it would go against your opinion of no government involvement.

Reminds me of a few years ago when our government removed tariffs on imports. There was quite a debate about it as our local manufacturers were finding it harder to compete with the import, especially since those countries also tax our exports anyway.

China also provides export subsidies.

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

It's not that simple. Maybe if it were just one world govmt (or no governments for that matter). However, if the US government refuses to react to another government's asymmetrical (financial) attack on our economy then we'll surely fall.

and how is that other govt. conducting an asymmetrical attack on our economy? I mean what are they doing that we can't?

Well if we were to do that.. have the government step in (like taxing the shit out of imports) it would go against your opinion of no government involvement.

you are right. I gotta ask though because I really don't know. If a company sets up shop in the country it sells to, is the product still an import?

YOu showed yourself where, no one taxes the fuck out of companies like the US does, forcing our prices up so companies can make their profit. Stop over charging them for operating here and they will sty here and sell more here which forces them to make more which forces them to hire more, which increase consumer income which increases consumer spending.

All of this hinges on what the consumer has in his pocket at the end of the day, not what the govt. has in its pockets.

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Well if we were to do that.. have the government step in (like taxing the shit out of imports) it would go against your opinion of no government involvement.

you are right. I gotta ask though because I really don't know. If a company sets up shop in the country it sells to, is the product still an import?

YOu showed yourself where, no one taxes the fuck out of companies like the US does, forcing our prices up so companies can make their profit. Stop over charging them for operating here and they will sty here and sell more here which forces them to make more which forces them to hire more, which increase consumer income which increases consumer spending.

All of this hinges on what the consumer has in his pocket at the end of the day, not what the govt. has in its pockets.

That depends. China (it's government) is very deliberate in it's interference, keeping cost low at home, which makes the low wages tolerable for it's workers. So Chinese workers make less but get relatively more. Conversely the American worker's income does not go as far.

I know I showed the high corporate tax rates. That is of course part of the problem, and is why I shared it.

I'd like to know how we are to address the Chinese unfair trade practices.

I am not trying to be difficult here, but what is unfair in their practices?All we gotta do is stop accepting their goods, right?

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

That depends. China (it's government) is very deliberate in it's interference, keeping cost low at home, which makes the low wages tolerable for it's workers. So Chinese workers make less but get relatively more. Conversely the American worker's income does not go as far.

I know I showed the high corporate tax rates. That is of course part of the problem, and is why I shared it.

I'd like to know how we are to address the Chinese unfair trade practices.

I am not trying to be difficult here, but what is unfair in their practices?All we gotta do is stop accepting their goods, right?

We're not going to do that though. We want their lower prices.

then whose problem is that, ours or theirs? What is "unfair" about charging what people are willing to pay?

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

We're not going to do that though. We want their lower prices.

then whose problem is that, ours or theirs? What is "unfair" about charging what people are willing to pay?

Ultimately it will be our problem. I don't think you're understanding. They, a foreign government is setting the price. Not the seller, not the consumer.

I do understand, and if we don't like that, then WE have choice.

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

We're not going to do that though. We want their lower prices.

then whose problem is that, ours or theirs? What is "unfair" about charging what people are willing to pay?

Ultimately it will be our problem. I don't think you're understanding. They, a foreign government is setting the price. Not the seller, not the consumer.

You mean through export subsidies?

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Ultimately it will be our problem. I don't think you're understanding. They, a foreign government is setting the price. Not the seller, not the consumer.

I do understand, and if we don't like that, then WE have choice.

You're right. The choice is to pay more, work for less, and to eventually sell our children in to the sex trade for a couple bags of Ramen noodles.

What widget does china export that we compete against? I really don't know.

Kmar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

You're right. The choice is to pay more, work for less, and to eventually sell our children in to the sex trade for a couple bags of Ramen noodles.

What widget does china export that we compete against? I really don't know.

We're competing for the jobs. I also support the right to choose lowing. This issue is simply bigger. In fact the core of the problem is a government's interference. The problem is, what can you really do about it? Try to make an inviting business environment?.. yes. But unless we make some huge sacrifices we're not going to be able to re-acquire those manufacturing jobs. China also has a history of stealing trade secrets and technology. ... this isn't just the US making these claims btw. The EU has also pointed out the problem.

What jobs though? The rubber vomit manufacturing industry?

Kmar wrote:

You might as rename Home Depot the China Depot. All kinds of manufacturing jobs.

I can not think of a single legitimate consumer product that was not a cheap POS made in china or some novelty item.