A Warming Planet Struggles to Feed Itself

2011-06-15 03:54:20

#201

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7006|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Of course you can maximize them both. It simply takes skill and timing.
Ehr ... no you can't actually, you have to compromize one of them to achieve the other ... that's so basic I'm disapointed you of all should think otherwise ...
Of course you compromise on both, but you reach a point where both are maximized. Hence the balancing act I was referring to.

If all of our farmers did was put out Wagyu cattle (maximizing quality at the expense of quantity), nobody would ever eat any beef, and the cattle farmers would go out of business completely. It's just not scalable.

Then we just talked past eachother

Only the huge cattle farmers would go out of business, the small ones that only care about quality will always attract customers that are willing to buy the really good stuff ... luckily ...

The masses need to rethink what they stuff in their mouths for this to change, don't buy and eat inferior products ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-06-15 03:56:40

#202

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6196|...

Well uh yeah something like that.

Phosphate groups (in connection with other groups like creatine) are used in your brain/muscles for energy.

inane little opines

2011-06-15 03:58:45

#203

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6302|eXtreme to the maX

Shocking wrote:
Well uh yeah something like that.

Phosphate groups (in connection with other groups like creatine) are used in your brain/muscles for energy.

Unless you've perfected alchemy that phosphorous has to come from somewhere.

Fuck Israel

2011-06-15 04:16:27

#204

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6196|...

Dilbert_X wrote:
Unless you've perfected alchemy that phosphorous has to come from somewhere.

I just know that life in general uses it. If phosphorus runs out almost everything is going to die. We use it, the animals we eat use it, which in turn gets it from plants which probably gets it from phosphate minerals in the ground.

If the phosphates leak out to sea other lifeforms will use it, which in turn will make it end up in our bodies again. Use our sewage as fertilizer and it'll simply be part of a natural cycle.

inane little opines

2011-06-15 05:15:46

#205

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6607|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:

Ehr ... no you can't actually, you have to compromize one of them to achieve the other ... that's so basic I'm disapointed you of all should think otherwise ...
Of course you compromise on both, but you reach a point where both are maximized. Hence the balancing act I was referring to.

If all of our farmers did was put out Wagyu cattle (maximizing quality at the expense of quantity), nobody would ever eat any beef, and the cattle farmers would go out of business completely. It's just not scalable.
Then we just talked past eachother

Only the huge cattle farmers would go out of business, the small ones that only care about quality will always attract customers that are willing to buy the really good stuff ... luckily ...

The masses need to rethink what they stuff in their mouths for this to change, don't buy and eat inferior products ...

The problem being (as I pointed out with my extreme example) that the "less inferior products" are out of reach of "the masses" due to cost. The only way to make them within reach of "the masses" is to...you guessed it: mass produce them. Which inherently lowers quality for the sake of quantity. Hence the balancing act of timing of feeding the right food at the right time for growth and taste.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-06-15 05:40:35

#206

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7006|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Of course you compromise on both, but you reach a point where both are maximized. Hence the balancing act I was referring to.

If all of our farmers did was put out Wagyu cattle (maximizing quality at the expense of quantity), nobody would ever eat any beef, and the cattle farmers would go out of business completely. It's just not scalable.
Then we just talked past eachother

Only the huge cattle farmers would go out of business, the small ones that only care about quality will always attract customers that are willing to buy the really good stuff ... luckily ...

The masses need to rethink what they stuff in their mouths for this to change, don't buy and eat inferior products ...
The problem being (as I pointed out with my extreme example) that the "less inferior products" are out of reach of "the masses" due to cost. The only way to make them within reach of "the masses" is to...you guessed it: mass produce them. Which inherently lowers quality for the sake of quantity. Hence the balancing act of timing of feeding the right food at the right time for growth and taste.

There are some truth in that ... you can produce much larger quantities of good quality products but far from the same quantity that we produce of inferior products ... that can again be somewhat countered with the amount of products people actually eat, you can actually by eating better products eat less and get the same or even better nutricious value and the same sensation of hunger relief ... that means you can feed the same amount of people with less food ...

Yes I know ... you still can't feed the same amount of people with better quality unless you drastically change other factors like start trading more with Africa and South America, stop growing food for other purposes than using it for food etc etc etc ... there are potentially waste amounts of actions that can sustain a much higher global population ...

Crop rotation is one thing that allows you to grow almost the same amount with much higher quality ... but that costs a little more labour ...

Subsidies are a must I'm afraid when it comes to food production ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-06-15 06:08:41

#207

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6302|eXtreme to the maX

Shocking wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Unless you've perfected alchemy that phosphorous has to come from somewhere.
I just know that life in general uses it. If phosphorus runs out almost everything is going to die. We use it, the animals we eat use it, which in turn gets it from plants which probably gets it from phosphate minerals in the ground.

If the phosphates leak out to sea other lifeforms will use it, which in turn will make it end up in our bodies again. Use our sewage as fertilizer and it'll simply be part of a natural cycle.

Or it could just sink to the bottom of the sea.

Fuck Israel

2011-06-15 09:29:28

#208

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6878|Disaster Free Zone

Grain fed beef is cheaper then grass in the US??

lol.

2011-06-15 09:31:20

#209

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5433|Cleveland, Ohio

DrunkFace wrote:
Grain fed beef is cheaper then grass in the US??

lol.

why is that funny?

2011-06-15 09:52:53

#210

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6878|Disaster Free Zone

You don't think the fact that apparently the cost, transportation and distribution of grain costs less then nothing, isn't funny? Not to even mention the extra costs of feeding stalls construction and upkeep.

2011-06-15 10:01:13

#211

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6913

DrunkFace wrote:
You don't think the fact that apparently the cost, transportation and distribution of grain costs less then nothing, isn't funny? Not to even mention the extra costs of feeding stalls construction and upkeep.

It's cheaper when considering the sheer production of corn the US does... Aussie doesn't produce corn near the scale of the US hence why its cheaper for us to use grass fed beef.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2011-06-15 10:15:46

#212

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6878|Disaster Free Zone

We sell our grain fed beef to the Japanese for anything up to $400kg. Why don't they buy it from the US if it's so cheap?

2011-06-15 10:17:59

#213

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6913

DrunkFace wrote:
We sell our grain fed beef to the Japanese for anything up to $400kg. Why don't they buy it from the US if it's so cheap?

That's because Wagyu beef is different than your generic american cattle.

2011-06-15 11:27:26

#214

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5433|Cleveland, Ohio

DrunkFace wrote:
You don't think the fact that apparently the cost, transportation and distribution of grain costs less then nothing, isn't funny? Not to even mention the extra costs of feeding stalls construction and upkeep.

no

2011-06-16 01:40:03

#215

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|6971|Noizyland

Isn't corn in the US heavily subsidied so feed lots and manufacturers can buy it below the cost of production?

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

2011-06-16 02:05:05

#216

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6797|132 and Bush

The government (USDA) used to pay farmers to not grow corn. I'm not sure if they still do.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-06-16 02:14:46

#217

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7006|Nårvei

Kmar wrote:
The government (USDA) used to pay farmers to not grow corn. I'm not sure if they still do.

Hey ... I didn't grown any corn last year, can I apply for a refund or sumthing?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-06-16 02:16:05

#218

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6302|eXtreme to the maX

Varegg wrote:
Kmar wrote:
The government (USDA) used to pay farmers to not grow corn. I'm not sure if they still do.
Hey ... I didn't grown any corn last year, can I apply for a refund or sumthing?

No, only commercial operations in capitalist countries get taxpayer funded subsidies, sorry.

Fuck Israel

2011-06-16 02:16:14

#219

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6797|132 and Bush

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-06-16 02:22:16

#220

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6797|132 and Bush

Dilbert_X wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Kmar wrote:
The government (USDA) used to pay farmers to not grow corn. I'm not sure if they still do.
Hey ... I didn't grown any corn last year, can I apply for a refund or sumthing?
No, only commercial operations in capitalist countries get taxpayer funded subsidies, sorry.

You don't think Norway operates on a capitalist model?

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-06-16 02:32:00

#221

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6302|eXtreme to the maX

Norway is socialist, for the people - not corporations.

Fuck Israel

2011-06-16 02:37:28

#222

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6797|132 and Bush

Corporations are made up of large groups of people.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-06-16 02:38:37

#223

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6797|132 and Bush

Not so much of a gap tbh

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-06-16 03:00:53

#224

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6871|Canberra, AUS

Surprised by the declining trend in both smaller economies. Any reasons for that?

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-06-16 03:24:03

#225

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7006|Nårvei

Dilbert_X wrote:
Norway is socialist, for the people - not corporations.

Not as much as you like to think ...

The foundation is still based on capitalism similar to the US, we have however implemented quite some socialistic "safety" features and perks ...

Those features eliminates most loopholes that causes corruption in similar economies, the government has a tight grip on the financial markets and businesses, we take care of the weakest (maybe to much but it works) etc etc

A good mix of government and corporations that works together, truly a government both for and by the people

I'm surprised the Scandinavian model doesn't catch on outside our territory ... Ghana state officials however have the last years been flooding Norway to copy our model

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

BF2S Forums A Warming Planet Struggles to Feed Itself

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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