UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

mcminty wrote:

Don't buy that gassing theory one bit. Just no.

And you state drone? If I can assume you mean a UAV (unmanned ariel vehicle, ie. drone), explain how something the size of a Global Hawk will cause so much damage to the pentagon. Damage on the scale an airliner would do.
It was just to make a point that an explanation could easily be guessed at for what happened to the passengers.  In truth, I would probably guess that it was the same 757 but flown in remote/auto/drone mode.    The last section of the flight path is pretty spectacular for a human pilot, IMO.  But fundamentally the drone/double theory only even exists because the US government refuses to release any of the camera footage which it seized in the first place. 

mcminty wrote:

To all those that believe in the conspiracy:

What did the American government gain from the murder of over 4000 innocent American citizens?

Honestly, with no bullshit, can someone give me a straight answer?
They got:  The right to blame and invade anyone they want, tighter controls on the population and the suspension of the rights afforded by many of the amendments, department of homeland security, more budget for military, unity in the population, more support for war, increased recruitment rates in the armed forces and in general the excuse to do anything they want.  Governments can do very evil things if they believe it is for the greater good.  Let me ask you a counter question: What did the Nazis get from gassing the Jews?

At the end of the day, we'll probably never know what really happened.  The most important thing as far as I'm concerned is to raise awareness and work towards creating a type of government where this kind of thing could simply never happen, through transparency at every level.

But if you want the simple answer: The real and underlying root of all evil can easily be traced every single time, and I don't even need to say it for you to guess what I'm talking about.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6748

mcminty wrote:

Also, If you can't accept the physics involved when the wings were snapped off, leaving the fuselage to make the hole, then I just guess there is no hope in getting through to you.
I'm sorry, what physics?  Link?

mcminty wrote:

What did the American government gain from the murder of over 4000 innocent American citizens?
Popularity?  An excuse to go to war?  In the long run, they didn't need a big reason.  I hate to say it but 3000 (official death toll is 2996, IIRC), is nothing, about 1/5th of the yearly road toll, I believe.
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

But if you want the simple answer: The real and underlying root of all evil can easily be traced every single time, and I don't even need to say it for you to guess what I'm talking about.
Uh, no...what ARE you saying?
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

Xietsu wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

But if you want the simple answer: The real and underlying root of all evil can easily be traced every single time, and I don't even need to say it for you to guess what I'm talking about.
Uh, no...what ARE you saying?
Money.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6922|California

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

But if you want the simple answer: The real and underlying root of all evil can easily be traced every single time, and I don't even need to say it for you to guess what I'm talking about.
Vagina?

The fact you included Mos Def and Eminem as your ambassadors of truth really diminishes anything you could possibly say.
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

But if you want the simple answer: The real and underlying root of all evil can easily be traced every single time, and I don't even need to say it for you to guess what I'm talking about.
Uh, no...what ARE you saying?
Money.
I'd largely disagree. If you would attribute that to all petty evils, I would suppose so. But otherwise...notsomuch. Massive "evil", if you will, is often relative to power. Political power, influential power, and guaranteed (continuation of) power. That is what will bring man to his moral knees! >)

(BTW, it seems to me that there are so many discrepancies in these peoples' half-assed "documentaries" about 9/11 being "staged" [rather, officially instigated/orchestrated] that you couldn't ever really know unless I ran an investigative team and then got back to you on all the facts. Honestly, there are some areas with a faaairly solid basis against the supposed strike being of terrorist origin, but many ends lead to more questions that can't be answered. To me, it's definitely possible that:

A: The U.S. Government [or some of its heavy stabilizers] let the terrorists organize the plan and took no recourse upon discovery.

B: The U.S. Government [-- ------- -- -- ------- ------------] assisted the terrorists in their goal.

C: The U.S. Government [-- ------- -- -- ------- ------------] gathered together individuals known to be affiliated with a "terrorist" group and established the plan for 9/11.

Many people high up on the financial ladder [or...not high enough, depending upon whose stance you're looking at this from] stood to benefit from this.)

Last edited by Xietsu (2006-05-16 07:02:11)

Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6881|San Francisco
I'd say everyone in the Bush administration, especially those who drafted the PNAC report, stood to benefit from this.  Their main goal was to gain complete control over the Middle East, and it specifically states (in this context, mind you) on page 51 of the report that the only way their ideals would be accepted is through another Pearl Harbor.

PNAC wrote:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
The 757 could've been shot down, as we've had reports of military aircraft leaving Otis Air Force base and coming back missing ordnance (go back earlier in this thread or in my thread about this), plus the attack fighters seemed to have arrived in NY over 10 minutes late, even after the pilots gave reports of flying as fast as their fighters could take them.

An interesting 9/11 Timeline by cooperative research

If the government could only be more transparent about this issue, and not do such things as censor the 9/11 Commission report, remove footage out of all the local cameras around the Pentagon, have plain-clothes men Instantly cleaning up after the crash and carrying things away that were blocked from the media, plus have such canned cell phone calls (taken from the peak height of the flight, where it is nearly impossible to make a clear call)...there's just too much to just take it all and accept it at face value.  Then it REALLY feels like we are being manipulated to just obey what the Bush administration has in store for all of this.

If all the "conspiracies" about 9/11 are false, then why isn't the government answering these questions?  I don't think the gas station footage of the supposed 757 hitting the Pentagon, if released, posed a threat to national security (since that's more than likely going to be the counter argument to this).
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

Erkut.hv wrote:

The fact you included Mos Def and Eminem as your ambassadors of truth really diminishes anything you could possibly say.
That's funny isn't it.  Many people seem to think that somehow making up some stupid, irrelevant reason to try and discredit a person automatically defeats the argument. 

A) It was an Immortal Technique track, FYI.  There were a few samples by those two, hence their name in the track. 
B) I refered to a specific track, which happened to be on topic for this thread. 
C) I don't care if you don't think my arguments are diminished, but obviously unless you actually refute them I'll assume that it's because you don't know how to.

Feel free to respond, but your response has 'diminished' anything else you say to the point where I doubt I'll notice.
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6857|Stalking Chuck Norris
DOD is releasing a video tape of the plane smashing into the pentagon today
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6881|San Francisco
Link to this, Flavius?
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6857|Stalking Chuck Norris

Marconius wrote:

Link to this, Flavius?
Its not out yet, they're releasing it around 1 pm eastern time, i'll post it as soon as i get a chance
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743
Lies! How know this?!

Last edited by Xietsu (2006-05-16 08:23:53)

UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

Xietsu wrote:

Lies! How know this?!
Maybe he has insider knowledge. Narc! Narc!
908741059871059781
Sheep of War
+40|6830

stryyker wrote:

honest to god, would the president order the killing of 2,000 people JUST to start a war? ive seen that video so many times, i believe the fact that my uncle DIED helping people out of tower 2. the war is unjust as is, no conspiracy involved
Dude its not JUST starting a war. Its political power pretty much garunteed, the delusion you are forcing people into what is best for them (military strength,) and TONS of money. Ther was alot more to gain than just getting rid of Saddam.
908741059871059781
Sheep of War
+40|6830

lowing wrote:

908741059871059781 wrote:

lowing wrote:


LOL you need to lighten up.......Taking humorous sarcasm to the extreme is a perfect way to make your point. obviously, that stick up your ass was distracting enough for you to miss that.
The last time I checked this was a "debate and serious talk" board. This is a topic I take seriously and believe that others should as well. I have a great sense of humor but this thread isn't the place for me to show it. I stand behind my previous statement.
Buddy, if this forum is what you take seriously.......you are in deeeeeeeeep shit with the realities of life. lol
Its not the forum that I take seriously, its the topic. I swear most of you people can't read.
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743
It's not about taking a particular forum seriously, but the concepts aroused within it. Worrying about someone being serious in their discussion on a forum is ill-placed.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6922|California

LW_Cobra wrote:

Just watch Bush in that classroom when the guy comes in and tells him what happened. Is he surprised? No. Is he upset? No. Does he act like the President of the USA should? No. Bush knew, as did others - just look at how Bush ran every business into the ground until he was backed financially by the Bin Laden wealth. My fellow Americans seem to have their head stuck in the sand and are just waiting for the govt (whom I work for) to tell them we are in code "yellow or red" so go buy more groceries, whilest we protect you. You believe that state of alert shit? Then you have been mind controlled, just what the govt of this country wants.
And you work for the government, what does that make you? A house bitch. The worst kind of mindwashed slave.

If you really believed the crap you typed, you would quit your job immediately. Why would you work for the machine? Oh wait, you're an "inside man", fighting the establishment from the inside out right?
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743

Erkut.hv wrote:

LW_Cobra wrote:

Just watch Bush in that classroom when the guy comes in and tells him what happened. Is he surprised? No. Is he upset? No. Does he act like the President of the USA should? No. Bush knew, as did others - just look at how Bush ran every business into the ground until he was backed financially by the Bin Laden wealth. My fellow Americans seem to have their head stuck in the sand and are just waiting for the govt (whom I work for) to tell them we are in code "yellow or red" so go buy more groceries, whilest we protect you. You believe that state of alert shit? Then you have been mind controlled, just what the govt of this country wants.
And you work for the government, what does that make you? A house bitch. The worst kind of mindwashed slave.

If you really believed the crap you typed, you would quit your job immediately. Why would you work for the machine? Oh wait, you're an "inside man", fighting the establishment from the inside out right?
Dude, the government has so many positions relative to the concept of "federal" that, for you to just be so rambunctiously assumptious and smack him in the face, it's just dispicable. He could be a congressman (who would most likely not admit to it), a man in the armed forces, or in a state legislature. How dare you claim whoever holds federal employment to be "a house bitch" or "mindwashed". That's pathetic. Thanks.
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6857|Stalking Chuck Norris

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

Lies! How know this?!
Maybe he has insider knowledge. Narc! Narc!
Fox News or (insert other news org here)
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6922|California

Xietsu wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

LW_Cobra wrote:

Just watch Bush in that classroom when the guy comes in and tells him what happened. Is he surprised? No. Is he upset? No. Does he act like the President of the USA should? No. Bush knew, as did others - just look at how Bush ran every business into the ground until he was backed financially by the Bin Laden wealth. My fellow Americans seem to have their head stuck in the sand and are just waiting for the govt (whom I work for) to tell them we are in code "yellow or red" so go buy more groceries, whilest we protect you. You believe that state of alert shit? Then you have been mind controlled, just what the govt of this country wants.
And you work for the government, what does that make you? A house bitch. The worst kind of mindwashed slave.

If you really believed the crap you typed, you would quit your job immediately. Why would you work for the machine? Oh wait, you're an "inside man", fighting the establishment from the inside out right?
Dude, the government has so many positions relative to the concept of "federal" that, for you to just be so rambunctiously assumptious and smack him in the face, it's just dispicable. He could be a congressman (who would most likely not admit to it), a man in the armed forces, or in a state legislature. How dare you claim whoever holds federal employment to be "a house bitch" or "mindwashed". That's pathetic. Thanks.
Because a man doesn't claim to work for the governemnt in a post of this nature unless he is trying to validate his point. The fact HE said he works for the government, and still holds these "theories" to be truths makes him a house bitch. I'll say it again. Regardless of which part of the government he works for.

I honestly hope he's just a janitor at a federal building, and holds no real station of power or influece. Claiming we are mindwashed for believing a government HE WORKS FOR.
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6743
lol . Even a congressman can be a conspiracist and not be a "house bitch". But seriously, clarify your individual interpretation of "bitch". Slang is so subjective - you can't always decipher what the user's intended conveyance is to be.
NM156
The H4xor Mod
+161|7034|North Texas
Here's the first link I've found about the tape: Pentagon to release film of Sept. 11 plane attack

edit: thanks Flavius, for the heads up!

Last edited by NM156 (2006-05-16 09:30:06)

Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6922|California

Xietsu wrote:

lol . Even a congressman can be a conspiracist and not be a "house bitch". But seriously, clarify your individual interpretation of "bitch". Slang is so subjective - you can't always decipher what the user's intended conveyance is to be.
Name a congressman who is a conspiracy theorist.

House bitch, he works for the very same group he claims is pulling the wool over our eyes. Why not be a whistle blower, fight against the machine? Just happy collecting that paycheck.

I'm saying he is worse than the people with their heads in the sand, because he knows the "truth" yet still works for the government.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

Flavius Aetius wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Xietsu wrote:

Lies! How know this?!
Maybe he has insider knowledge. Narc! Narc!
Fox News or (insert other news org here)
(insert links here) NM's posted nm

EDIT: Be interesting to find out if you can even see the planes in the seized footage...

Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-05-16 09:38:53)

UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6840

Erkut.hv wrote:

Name a congressman who is a conspiracy theorist.
Ron Paul

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