FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6651|'Murka

Superior Mind wrote:

The war on drugs was a cover for the CIA to cripple or take control of certain crop productions in Latin America- similar to the anti-communist military action taken in the area. They also attempted to assume to control of the drug trade by propagating certain drug traffic veins and selling drugs themselves. Evil shit.
/tinfoilhat

@kmar: I thought we were talking about reality.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

FEOS wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

The war on drugs was a cover for the CIA to cripple or take control of certain crop productions in Latin America- similar to the anti-communist military action taken in the area. They also attempted to assume to control of the drug trade by propagating certain drug traffic veins and selling drugs themselves. Evil shit.
/tinfoilhat

@kmar: I thought we were talking about reality.
CIA put crack on everything in black communities to keep a brother down.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

Superior Mind wrote:

The war on drugs was a cover for the CIA to cripple or take control of certain crop productions in Latin America- similar to the anti-communist military action taken in the area. They also attempted to assume to control of the drug trade by propagating certain drug traffic veins and selling drugs themselves. Evil shit.
Its been used as a cover to destabilise South America, presumably on similiar lines to the theory that destabilising the Middle East is somehow a good thing.
That and the CIA like to have an excuse to expand their budget.

Really, like terrorism, all you need to deal with drugs is good border control and basic internal policing and you don't need to be fighting wars and funding dictators all over the world.
Fuck Israel
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6841|132 and Bush

FEOS wrote:

@kmar: I thought we were talking about reality.
why start now
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Fallschirmjager10
Member
+36|6700
Friend used to get morphine in a silver briefcase from the feds lulz.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6740|so randum

Fallschirmjager10 wrote:

Friend used to get morphine in a silver briefcase from the feds lulz.
sounds legit
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England
Here's a step in the right direction...
HARTFORD, Conn. -- The Connecticut Senate narrowly approved legislation on Saturday that decriminalizes the possession of small amounts of marijuana.

The measure passed after Democratic Lt. Gov. Nancy Wyman broke an 18-to-18 tie vote as the president of the state Senate. It now moves to the House of Representatives for final legislative action.

While opponents of the bill said it sends the wrong message, proponents said the legislation will help young people arrested for marijuana possession to avoid a criminal record that could hurt their chances to find a good job or enter college.

"It puts into jeopardy the future endeavors of such young people," said Sen. Eric Coleman, D-Bloomfield, co-chairman of the General Assembly's Judiciary Committee. "Decriminalizing the use and possession of small amounts of marijuana is a better course and in the best interest of young people whose judgment may not be fully matured."

Senate Majority Leader Martin Looney, D-New Haven, stressed that lawmakers were not legalizing marijuana.

"We are not enforcing the use of illegal drugs. We strongly disapprove of their use, but we're trying to realign their punishment that is more appropriate," he said, adding that the state should be focusing its scarce criminal justice resources on dangerous offenders.

Under the bill, possession of less than a half-ounce of marijuana would no longer be a misdemeanor. Instead, it would result in a $150 fine for a first offense and a fine ranging from $200 to $500 for subsequent offenses. Those under 21 years old would face a 60-day driver's license suspension, similar to the existing penalty for possessing alcohol.

Under current law, possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor, punishable by a possible jail term and larger fines: $1,000 for a first offense and $3,000 for subsequent offenses.

The bill also requires anyone 18 years old or younger who is caught with less than a half-ounce to be referred to the state's juvenile courts.

During the debate, Sen. Toni Boucher, R-Wilton, an outspoken opponent of any efforts to legalize marijuana, persuaded the majority Democrats to further amend the bill to require someone caught three times with less than a half-ounce to seek drug treatment. Boucher voiced concern about the potential ill health effects from marijuana usage. She said she's been urged by families who've lost children to drug addiction to oppose the decriminalization bill.

"When we do this, and it has been shown in other states that have gone down this path, there is both an increase in use and an increase in crime," said Boucher, who also opposes another bill that would fully legalize the medical use of marijuana. The fate of that legislation remains in doubt as lawmakers face a midnight adjournment on Wednesday.

Senate Minority Leader John McKinney, R-Fairfield, said he opposed the legislation based on personal experience. He told the story of his older sister Lucie, who became addicted to drugs in the 1980s, went to drug rehab and has been clean and sober ever since.

McKinney said marijuana led his sister to use cocaine and other drugs.

"For me, a policy that lessens the severity of drug use is a bad one," he said. "I don't believe we should just give up."

McKinney said there are already options for young people to clear their records from a marijuana possession charge. They can apply for youthful offender status, a program that eventually clears the conviction from a young person's record. Adults also have an opportunity to apply for a similar program called Accelerated Rehabilitation.

Shortly after the bill passed, Democratic Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, a former prosecutor, urged the House of Representatives to pass the decriminalization bill before the session ends. He called it a "commonsense" reform to the criminal justice system.

Malloy said the state is "doing more harm than good when we prosecute people who are caught using marijuana -- needlessly stigmatizing them in a way they would not if they were caught drinking underage."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/05/in … z1OPnCT38u
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6872|949

Dilbert_X wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Pretty funny that people who probably had a hand in propagating and benefitting from the 'war on drugs' are coming out and saying after the fact that it has a negative effect.  Actually, it's not funny, it's sad.
I don't think you're understanding how the system works in that respect.
what's that now, dilbert?
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5499|foggy bottom

Jay wrote:

Under current law, possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor, punishable by a possible jail term and larger fines: $1,000 for a first offense and $3,000 for subsequent offenses.
holy fuck!
Tu Stultus Es
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

eleven bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

Under current law, possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor, punishable by a possible jail term and larger fines: $1,000 for a first offense and $3,000 for subsequent offenses.
holy fuck!
Possession is criminal, but with less than 15 grams, offenders can receive up to two cautions.

here at NSW.

I saw a kid on a show called RBT (road breathalyzer test) think cops but just with drunk drivers... anyway he had half a ziplock bag full of weed and only got a 400 dollar fine for possession lol.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5499|foggy bottom
anything less than 28 grams in california is a 100 dollar fine
Tu Stultus Es
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6872|949

$300 after civil assessment
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5499|foggy bottom
revenue collection.  least it goes to the county and not the corrections industry
Tu Stultus Es
Sturgeon
Member
+488|5181|Flintshire

eleven bravo wrote:

revenue collection.  least it goes to the county and not the corrections industry
lowing
https://bf3s.com/sigs/3dda27c6d0d9b22836605b152b9d214b99507f91.png
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6725
Here in Philly possession is only a misdemeanor ticket-able offense, and that's only if the cop is a dick about it.  Few weeks ago we watched the cops roll up on one of the guys from the block, search him, and find a few dime jars.  All the cops did was empty them out onto the sidewalk and make him stomp on it.
Benzin
Member
+576|6239

Superior Mind wrote:

The war on drugs was a cover for the CIA to cripple or take control of certain crop productions in Latin America- similar to the anti-communist military action taken in the area. They also attempted to assume to control of the drug trade by propagating certain drug traffic veins and selling drugs themselves. Evil shit.
link?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6915|Canberra, AUS

Cybargs wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

Under current law, possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor, punishable by a possible jail term and larger fines: $1,000 for a first offense and $3,000 for subsequent offenses.
holy fuck!
Possession is criminal, but with less than 15 grams, offenders can receive up to two cautions.

here at NSW.

I saw a kid on a show called RBT (road breathalyzer test) think cops but just with drunk drivers... anyway he had half a ziplock bag full of weed and only got a 400 dollar fine for possession lol.
Here in ACT <15g (i think) it's just a fine ($200 or something), no crim record.

and i'm pretty sure rbt = random breath test

Last edited by Spark (2011-06-06 01:32:10)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6651|'Murka

CapnNismo wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

The war on drugs was a cover for the CIA to cripple or take control of certain crop productions in Latin America- similar to the anti-communist military action taken in the area. They also attempted to assume to control of the drug trade by propagating certain drug traffic veins and selling drugs themselves. Evil shit.
link?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p … infoil+hat
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5418|Sydney

Jay wrote:

Here's a step in the right direction...
HARTFORD, Conn. -- The Connecticut Senate narrowly approved legislation on Saturday that decriminalizes the possession of small amounts of marijuana.

The measure passed after Democratic Lt. Gov. Nancy Wyman broke an 18-to-18 tie vote as the president of the state Senate. It now moves to the House of Representatives for final legislative action.

While opponents of the bill said it sends the wrong message, proponents said the legislation will help young people arrested for marijuana possession to avoid a criminal record that could hurt their chances to find a good job or enter college.

"It puts into jeopardy the future endeavors of such young people," said Sen. Eric Coleman, D-Bloomfield, co-chairman of the General Assembly's Judiciary Committee. "Decriminalizing the use and possession of small amounts of marijuana is a better course and in the best interest of young people whose judgment may not be fully matured."

Senate Majority Leader Martin Looney, D-New Haven, stressed that lawmakers were not legalizing marijuana.

"We are not enforcing the use of illegal drugs. We strongly disapprove of their use, but we're trying to realign their punishment that is more appropriate," he said, adding that the state should be focusing its scarce criminal justice resources on dangerous offenders.

Under the bill, possession of less than a half-ounce of marijuana would no longer be a misdemeanor. Instead, it would result in a $150 fine for a first offense and a fine ranging from $200 to $500 for subsequent offenses. Those under 21 years old would face a 60-day driver's license suspension, similar to the existing penalty for possessing alcohol.

Under current law, possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor, punishable by a possible jail term and larger fines: $1,000 for a first offense and $3,000 for subsequent offenses.

The bill also requires anyone 18 years old or younger who is caught with less than a half-ounce to be referred to the state's juvenile courts.

During the debate, Sen. Toni Boucher, R-Wilton, an outspoken opponent of any efforts to legalize marijuana, persuaded the majority Democrats to further amend the bill to require someone caught three times with less than a half-ounce to seek drug treatment. Boucher voiced concern about the potential ill health effects from marijuana usage. She said she's been urged by families who've lost children to drug addiction to oppose the decriminalization bill.

"When we do this, and it has been shown in other states that have gone down this path, there is both an increase in use and an increase in crime," said Boucher, who also opposes another bill that would fully legalize the medical use of marijuana. The fate of that legislation remains in doubt as lawmakers face a midnight adjournment on Wednesday.

Senate Minority Leader John McKinney, R-Fairfield, said he opposed the legislation based on personal experience. He told the story of his older sister Lucie, who became addicted to drugs in the 1980s, went to drug rehab and has been clean and sober ever since.

McKinney said marijuana led his sister to use cocaine and other drugs.

"For me, a policy that lessens the severity of drug use is a bad one," he said. "I don't believe we should just give up."

McKinney said there are already options for young people to clear their records from a marijuana possession charge. They can apply for youthful offender status, a program that eventually clears the conviction from a young person's record. Adults also have an opportunity to apply for a similar program called Accelerated Rehabilitation.

Shortly after the bill passed, Democratic Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, a former prosecutor, urged the House of Representatives to pass the decriminalization bill before the session ends. He called it a "commonsense" reform to the criminal justice system.

Malloy said the state is "doing more harm than good when we prosecute people who are caught using marijuana -- needlessly stigmatizing them in a way they would not if they were caught drinking underage."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/05/in … z1OPnCT38u
Is it thought that this could influence similar legislations introduced for other states?
Stimey
­
+786|6360|Ontario | Canada
here in Canada the cops dont really care if your a bunch of kids out in the park smoking a joint, not hurting anyone.
if you can call that "failed"
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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England
The Ends Didn’t Justify the Means
Our complicity in the devastating war on crime

Matt Welch from the July 2011 issue

At the first presidential debate of the 2012 campaign, former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson implored Republican voters to conduct a “cost-benefit analysis” of the criminal justice system. “Half of what we spend on law enforcement, the courts, and the prisons is drug related, and to what end?” Johnson asked a South Carolina audience in May. “We’re arresting 1.8 million a year in this country; we now have 2.3 million people behind bars in this country. We have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. I would ask people to look at this issue; see if they don’t come to the same conclusion that I did, and that is that 90 percent of the drug problem is prohibition-related.”

The ends of justice, Johnson argues, have not justified the means of prosecution. This issue of reason is a detailed brief in support of that thesis. A system designed to protect the innocent has instead become a menagerie to imprison them. A legal code designed to proscribe specific behavior has instead become a vast, vague, and unpredictable invitation to selective enforcement. Public servants who swear on the Constitution to uphold the highest principles of justice go out of their way to stop prisoners from using DNA evidence to show they were wrongly convicted. Even before you start debating the means of the four-decade crackdown on crime and drugs, it’s important to acknowledge that the ends are riddled with serious problems.

America has one-quarter of the world’s prisoners. More than 7 million people are under correctional supervision in this country. These staggering statistics—no other country comes close in percentage terms, let alone raw numbers—have serious consequences. For one thing, there is the fiscal cost: The corrections system lags only Medicaid in government spending growth on the state level. Yet most prisons are overcrowded, underserviced, and exponentially more dangerous than any decent society should tolerate.

Worse are the cascading social effects, some of which you might not initially expect. Although prison is overwhelmingly the province of men, black women in America’s inner cities have some of the highest HIV infection rates in the developed world. Why? Because their male partners contracted the virus behind bars, via consensual sex or rape, often going undiagnosed while serving out their terms.

Very few in our political and media classes are familiar with the communities most ravaged by crime and punishment. No politician ever lost an election by alienating the ex-con vote (in no small part because in a dozen states, ex-felons who have completed parole are still permanently barred from voting). It is no accident that the people most likely to languish behind bars—poor minorities, sex offenders, illegal immigrants—tend to be among the most reviled groups in American society.

To the extent that we even think about our prison population bomb, we have allowed ourselves to believe it’s an acceptable price to pay for the recent reduction in crime. But the rates of incarceration and crime aren’t so easily correlated, let alone quantified in terms of cause and effect. And the notion that we are keeping dangerous predators off the streets is belied by the fact that an estimated 1 million prisoners in the U.S. are serving time for nonviolent offenses, predominantly related to drugs.

The drug war is a leading supplier to the prison industry and the biggest inspiration for new ways to circumvent the Fourth Amendment. More than 800,000 people are still arrested each year for marijuana alone, despite the widespread misconception that pot has been largely decriminalized, and despite the fact that close to half of all Americans by now have smoked it, and more than half, by some surveys, favor legalizing it. We can thank the drug war for “stop-and-frisk” harassment of young New Yorkers, for the transfer of military equipment and tactics to local police departments, for wrong-door SWAT raids that kill innocents, for an entire shadow economy of dubious jailhouse snitching and back-room sentence reductions. Vanishingly few public officials even pretend anymore that the drug war can somehow be “won.”

Meanwhile, government at every level continues to run out of money. So conditions are becoming increasingly ripe for a Johnsonian cost-benefit analysis to conclude that drug prohibition needs to go the way of alcohol prohibition. It remains my hope, even my conviction, that these hardheaded arguments will reverse this evil policy during the next decade or two.

Yet we can’t assess the corrosive and life-destroying faults of the criminal justice system—and our complicity in creating them—merely by looking at the bottom line of a spreadsheet. Americans have created a system in which criminals who have served their sentences can still expect to remain incarcerated for life. Voters continue to reward prosecutors who are notorious for locking up innocent people. Our periodic national panics about terrorism and immigration have created a system where defendants do not have access to a public lawyer, prisoners can rot indefinitely, and 30-year residents of the U.S. can get deported for Reagan-era misdemeanors.

Why did all this happen? Because we let ourselves be OK with the ends justifying the means.

Would you torture a terrorist suspect if he could reveal enough information to prevent a ticking time bomb from exploding in a big city? That was the armchair interrogator’s debate question eight years ago, recently revived when a variety of U.S. intelligence sources finally pinpointed the hiding place of 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden. It was the intellectual successor of CNN anchor Bernard Shaw’s famous debate question to 1988 Democratic presidential nominee Michael Dukakis: “Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?’’

These questions are intended not to further discussion but to end it. Only a monster would oppose either final retribution or preventive action against those who murder innocents. Even though the examples are always and necessarily fictional, these are the ultimate in cost-benefit analysis and base emotionalism. The mind-set behind them has dominated America’s policies for using deadly government force for decades.

That’s why I’m grateful that Gary Johnson wasn’t the only libertarian-leaning candidate at the first GOP debate in South Carolina. Before the former New Mexico governor gave his hardheaded consequentialist answer to the drug war question, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), who has always been more interested in principle than pragmatism, gave perhaps the most unusual answer in presidential campaign history. When asked about legalizing heroin, Paul analogized personal drug use to freedom of religion. When the stunned panelist asked him whether he had indeed just cited heroin use as an example of liberty, Paul said yes.

“What you’re inferring is that if we legalize heroin tomorrow everybody would use heroin,” Paul said. “How many people would use heroin if it’s legal? I bet nobody here would use heroin or say, ‘Oh yeah, I want heroin, I need the government to protect me, so I need these laws.’ ” Shockingly—and refreshingly—the comment drew some of the biggest applause of the night.

Now that the ends of our criminal justice system have produced the kind of outrages documented throughout this special issue, it’s long past time to reform the means. But those changes won’t last unless we reform ourselves. It is an unpopular and even counterintuitive notion that the ends don’t justify the means, particularly when the ends turn out well. But real justice is not a popularity contest.

Matt Welch ([email protected]) is editor in chief of reason.
http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/06/t … fy-the-mea
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Stimey
­
+786|6360|Ontario | Canada
bravo mr paul
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Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5418|Sydney
That was a good read.

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