I get offended...Finray wrote:
No, stupid black people get offended.
not stupid, not black.
...
not stupid, not black.
not people
Tu Stultus Es
Whatever new PC word for them is going to be used as an insult in time. After a few years of them being called "special" people started using "special" as a synonym for just stupid. The only way I can foresee this being overcome is if the proper PC term becomes so long that it would require to much effort to say it casually. Though at that does seem to be the direction it's going in.
lots of new slang opportunities with longer words. "OMG! You insulted me, and mutilated the word!"Doctor Strangelove wrote:
Whatever new PC word for them is going to be used as an insult in time. After a few years of them being called "special" people started using "special" as a synonym for just stupid. The only way I can foresee this being overcome is if the proper PC term becomes so long that it would require to much effort to say it casually. Though at that does seem to be the direction it's going in.
I'd have to say, i agree with this.Graphic-J wrote:
Words only have the power that the listener/reader allows.
Dont ban the word, just dont use it everywhere and anytime.
Still people are defending the relation of making fun of others by comparing them to those who have mental disabilities...which was the main point of the PSA. It is just embodied in the word "retard." It doesn't matter what word you use. The people you are using as an example of how stupid your friends are acting know what you are saying, or their loved ones do. The term you use ("special" or "retarded" or anything else), so long as the intent is to essentially say "you're acting like a person with a mental disability" is the problem. Because by doing that, you are saying that's what those afflicted with those conditions do. You are not just denigrating your friend...you are denigrating all those other people, as well.
Is it really that hard to see?
The movement isn't to "ban" the word. It's to have people think of using the word in normal conversation just as they would all those other epithets, because it causes the same type of harm, in the same ways. Of course, if you're good with calling people nigger, spic, chink, faggot, and kike all the time...then the message is most likely lost on you, anyway.
Is it really that hard to see?
The movement isn't to "ban" the word. It's to have people think of using the word in normal conversation just as they would all those other epithets, because it causes the same type of harm, in the same ways. Of course, if you're good with calling people nigger, spic, chink, faggot, and kike all the time...then the message is most likely lost on you, anyway.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Well, FEOS, what do you want? You want us to celebrate their disability instead? We teach kids, essentially from birth, that they should strive to be intelligent, strong, good looking and hard working. These desires are genetically built into us and culturally reinforced. Everyone that deviates from the ideal is made fun of. It's the way it is and will always be. So please, step down off the bully pulpit and stop trying to get the world to change to suit you. Thanks.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
jay that's very libertarian of you
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
And you misinterpret the entire point of the OP.Jay wrote:
Well, FEOS, what do you want? You want us to celebrate their disability instead? We teach kids, essentially from birth, that they should strive to be intelligent, strong, good looking and hard working. These desires are genetically built into us and culturally reinforced. Everyone that deviates from the ideal is made fun of. It's the way it is and will always be. So please, step down off the bully pulpit and stop trying to get the world to change to suit you. Thanks.
GG
We do teach our children to strive for all those things. But we don't teach them to make fun of those less fortunate than them. In fact, we teach the opposite. Hence, charity organizations. Which, as a hard-core libertarian, you should understand implicitly.
None of which has anything to do with the OP.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
No, that would make me a believer in egalitarianism. We aren't all equal, nor should we be. Should we all have the same basic rights like those enshrined in the Constitution? Absolutely. But if I were in a hiring position would I take the best or the worst candidate? Right, the best, and you yourself recognize that there is a best and a worst candidate. Not everyone is a fit. Not everyone is equal.
Don't confuse my political stance and try to twist in the way you wish it to go. I fully believe that people should be allowed to live the life they wish to live. I have never said that it should be pain free to do so. Stepping away from the herd is always painful and if you can't stomach that pain, rejoin the flock. "But Jay, that doesn't make any sense" Sure it does. Not all opinions are correct. If your argument is sound and you can justify it, it will stand on it's own and no amount of cajoling should force you to change your mind. If you can't prove that your opinion is correct, go rejoin the herd.
Don't confuse my political stance and try to twist in the way you wish it to go. I fully believe that people should be allowed to live the life they wish to live. I have never said that it should be pain free to do so. Stepping away from the herd is always painful and if you can't stomach that pain, rejoin the flock. "But Jay, that doesn't make any sense" Sure it does. Not all opinions are correct. If your argument is sound and you can justify it, it will stand on it's own and no amount of cajoling should force you to change your mind. If you can't prove that your opinion is correct, go rejoin the herd.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
all this talk of herds... very hipster-esque
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
i dunno aboot anyone else but i will say what i want, when i want. and i fully accept the consequences of doing so.
All of which is nice, but has zero to do with justifying purposefully saying things that you know hurt those who have never and will never harm you.Jay wrote:
No, that would make me a believer in egalitarianism. We aren't all equal, nor should we be. Should we all have the same basic rights like those enshrined in the Constitution? Absolutely. But if I were in a hiring position would I take the best or the worst candidate? Right, the best, and you yourself recognize that there is a best and a worst candidate. Not everyone is a fit. Not everyone is equal.
Don't confuse my political stance and try to twist in the way you wish it to go. I fully believe that people should be allowed to live the life they wish to live. I have never said that it should be pain free to do so. Stepping away from the herd is always painful and if you can't stomach that pain, rejoin the flock. "But Jay, that doesn't make any sense" Sure it does. Not all opinions are correct. If your argument is sound and you can justify it, it will stand on it's own and no amount of cajoling should force you to change your mind. If you can't prove that your opinion is correct, go rejoin the herd.
Egalitarianism has nothing to do with your premise that we teach our children to make fun of those who are less fortunate. Egalitarianism has nothing to do with the libertarian notion that it is the public, rather than the government--through charities--that takes care of (rather than making fun of) those who are less fortunate. Again...none of that has anything to do with egalitarianism, and egalitarianism has nothing to do with mocking those with disabilities.
In fact, libertarianism says your rights are unlimited until the exercising of them infringes on mine, does it not? This is a case where that is happening. You should be defending the position, rather than arguing that it's OK for people to mock the mentally challenged.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
wtf are you two arguing about. i swear its like you just want to hear yourself talk or something.
Gee. You're spot on.11 Bravo wrote:
wtf are you two arguing about. i swear its like you just want to hear yourself talk or something.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
It's a comparison. ie. "that is such a stupid decision that you would have to have some kind of mental deficiency to make it.". Only it's a much shorter way to say it. It is not an attack on handicapped people when you say it. You are not saying it to insult hurt handi-capped people and I don't understand how you think it would be an attack on them.
If you say "That car is a piece of garbage.". It is not an attack on garbage, it is an attack on the car.
If you say "She looks like an angel.". It is not a compliment to angels, it is a compliment to her.
If you say "That car is a piece of garbage.". It is not an attack on garbage, it is an attack on the car.
If you say "She looks like an angel.". It is not a compliment to angels, it is a compliment to her.
Nic wrote:
It's a comparison. ie. "that is such a stupid decision that you would have to have some kind of mental deficiency to make it.". Only it's a much shorter way to say it. It is not an attack on handicapped people when you say it. You are not saying it to insult hurt handi-capped people and I don't understand how you think it would be an attack on them.
If you say "That car is a piece of garbage.". It is not an attack on garbage, it is an attack on the car.
If you say "She looks like an angel.". It is not a compliment to angels, it is a compliment to her.
For. Fuck's. Sake.
I understand exactly what is meant by the term, Nic. The fact that you can't see what is wrong with it is the problem.
These people aren't stupid. Making that comparison says that they are, and also shows how little the person making the comparison actually knows.
I understand exactly what is meant by the term, Nic. The fact that you can't see what is wrong with it is the problem.
These people aren't stupid. Making that comparison says that they are, and also shows how little the person making the comparison actually knows.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
bollocks
No, shit. There are different ways of being mentally handi-capped?!!!??!?!?
Is it a generalization? Yes.
Do you understand exactly what is meant when it is said? Yes.
Do I think that mentally handi-capped people are less than me? No.
Do I think that some of them may not be the best decision makers? Yes.
Do I think that they are so pathetic that somebody saying that a bad decision is retarded is an insult to everyone who is mentally challenged? No.
Shit, my 2 of my best friends have mentally handi-capped brothers, and if I make a stupid decision they will tell me it is retarded. They are not attacking their brothers. It's not like they don't respect and love their brothers.
It always makes me think that the people who really believe that things like this are terrible are the ones who truly think that handi-capped people are less than those who are not.
Is it a generalization? Yes.
Do you understand exactly what is meant when it is said? Yes.
Do I think that mentally handi-capped people are less than me? No.
Do I think that some of them may not be the best decision makers? Yes.
Do I think that they are so pathetic that somebody saying that a bad decision is retarded is an insult to everyone who is mentally challenged? No.
Shit, my 2 of my best friends have mentally handi-capped brothers, and if I make a stupid decision they will tell me it is retarded. They are not attacking their brothers. It's not like they don't respect and love their brothers.
It always makes me think that the people who really believe that things like this are terrible are the ones who truly think that handi-capped people are less than those who are not.
No, because you're infringing on my rights to free speech. It's not my fault you get butthurt over a word. Get the fuck over it.FEOS wrote:
All of which is nice, but has zero to do with justifying purposefully saying things that you know hurt those who have never and will never harm you.Jay wrote:
No, that would make me a believer in egalitarianism. We aren't all equal, nor should we be. Should we all have the same basic rights like those enshrined in the Constitution? Absolutely. But if I were in a hiring position would I take the best or the worst candidate? Right, the best, and you yourself recognize that there is a best and a worst candidate. Not everyone is a fit. Not everyone is equal.
Don't confuse my political stance and try to twist in the way you wish it to go. I fully believe that people should be allowed to live the life they wish to live. I have never said that it should be pain free to do so. Stepping away from the herd is always painful and if you can't stomach that pain, rejoin the flock. "But Jay, that doesn't make any sense" Sure it does. Not all opinions are correct. If your argument is sound and you can justify it, it will stand on it's own and no amount of cajoling should force you to change your mind. If you can't prove that your opinion is correct, go rejoin the herd.
Egalitarianism has nothing to do with your premise that we teach our children to make fun of those who are less fortunate. Egalitarianism has nothing to do with the libertarian notion that it is the public, rather than the government--through charities--that takes care of (rather than making fun of) those who are less fortunate. Again...none of that has anything to do with egalitarianism, and egalitarianism has nothing to do with mocking those with disabilities.
In fact, libertarianism says your rights are unlimited until the exercising of them infringes on mine, does it not? This is a case where that is happening. You should be defending the position, rather than arguing that it's OK for people to mock the mentally challenged.
By your definition I should never argue with anyone because it might hurt their feelings. Ridiculous.
Last edited by Jay (2011-05-28 12:24:44)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm not the one "butthurt," Jay. I didn't make the PSA. I just happen to agree with the message.
And I remain astounded by your defense of the use of a term that clearly offends a group of people, when you have no problems limiting your speech in similar ways with other terms for other groups for the same reason. Hypocrisy much?
You can argue with whomever you want. Never implied you couldn't. Do you have to throw racial and other epithets around to have an argument?
And Nic: You're fucking clueless if you think that. There's really no other way to describe it.
And I remain astounded by your defense of the use of a term that clearly offends a group of people, when you have no problems limiting your speech in similar ways with other terms for other groups for the same reason. Hypocrisy much?
You can argue with whomever you want. Never implied you couldn't. Do you have to throw racial and other epithets around to have an argument?
And Nic: You're fucking clueless if you think that. There's really no other way to describe it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
sure thing boss.
Considering I'm sitting in the ER right now with my severely handicapped, 11-year old son, fighting for him like I have for every day of his life...yeah. Your opinion is shit.Nic wrote:
sure thing boss.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Using words like retard is bad. Condescending replies are okay.