I'm sure myself and many others will heed your excellent advice.
As an after thought sure.Stimey wrote:
good thing squats and deadlifts cover all of those
Xbone Stormsurgezz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift
Just take a look at the involved muscles.
Then come here and tell me its not one of if not the best workouts.
Just take a look at the involved muscles.
Then come here and tell me its not one of if not the best workouts.
No one is denying it's a great compound exercise...
The idea if you're told to work core muscles is to specifically target the core with each exercise. In fact, most core exercises don't involve your limbs to any great extent. There certainly are better exercises to do other than a 2xBody Weight Dead-lift for building your trunk.Stimey wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift
Just take a look at the involved muscles.
Then come here and tell me its not one of if not the best workouts.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
been living off canned tuna in salad with lowfat dressing+ One 50mg whey shake post workout whole milk with hersheys chocolate syrup for sugar spike and one 50mg casien shake with whole milk b4 i go to sleep+ sardines in olive oil for snacks + protein bars for 2 weeks now. My self-invented miserable diet which leaves u with no energy due to virtually no carbs but 2 scoops of no explode fixes that before a workout. 40 mins on the elliptical level 25/30 and then 45 of lifting every day. I bring a gallon jug of water with me and im more than 3/4 through it by the end. 3-4 days a week. How long till i have a 6 pack guize i wanna be sexy for 4th of july looking like mike the situation.
Exactly. Whilst they are perhaps the two best compounds you can do, the primary muscles worked are from the hips down. Yes the core is involved and to some degree the upper body but these come in as secondary muscles, not the target ones. Look up any exercise database, go to the section about ab/core exercises. You will not find squats of DLs there because their primary target is the quads, lower posterior chain and to a slight lesser extent the calves.Kmar wrote:
The idea if you're told to work core muscles is to specifically target the core with each exercise. In fact, most core exercises don't involve your limbs to any great extent. There certainly are better exercises to do other than a 2xBody Weight Dead-lift for building your trunk.Stimey wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift
Just take a look at the involved muscles.
Then come here and tell me its not one of if not the best workouts.
e: got it
Last edited by Stimey (2011-05-25 18:33:28)
Yeah, tell that to Arnie (who would DL 700lbs) and looked like the first pic.
Have you even read the SL5x5 report? He uses Arnie as a benchmark a lot of the time and puts up pics of him as being the vision of someone who looks strong.
Also, you're just further reinforcing the point I made that not one exercise routine suits everyone, because people have different goals.
Have you even read the SL5x5 report? He uses Arnie as a benchmark a lot of the time and puts up pics of him as being the vision of someone who looks strong.
Also, you're just further reinforcing the point I made that not one exercise routine suits everyone, because people have different goals.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-05-25 18:37:13)
Thats because he's Arnold.
The point I'm trying to get across here is that after a year of lifting you'd be much better off doing SS or SL for a year, than something like a 5 day split.
Having toned/cut muscles is fairly meaningless if you can't lift anything with them.
The point I'm trying to get across here is that after a year of lifting you'd be much better off doing SS or SL for a year, than something like a 5 day split.
Having toned/cut muscles is fairly meaningless if you can't lift anything with them.
Yes, this was covered some time ago.
What you're best off doing is a FBW workout based around compound exercises. SS and SL happen to be excellent examples. They're not the only ones and they only suit a strength based goal. People in this thread (and life) have varied goals after all.
What you're best off doing is a FBW workout based around compound exercises. SS and SL happen to be excellent examples. They're not the only ones and they only suit a strength based goal. People in this thread (and life) have varied goals after all.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-05-25 23:00:13)
SL makes you look like a fat cunt.
Thats the point... its a bulking program.wah1188 wrote:
SL makes you look like a fat cunt.
You can do like a 2 week cut after you do 6 months of strong lifts and you'll look like an Abercrombie model if thats your thing.
i feel so guilty after doing barbell rows. i wish starting strength identified an exact form to do the exercise, rather then say "it depends"
easily the worst part of SS. (the barbell rows I mean)HaiBai wrote:
i feel so guilty after doing barbell rows. i wish starting strength identified an exact form to do the exercise, rather then say "it depends"
Just maintain a straight back as parallel to the floor as possible with shoulder blades squeezed in and pull the bar to around the bottom of your rib cage. It doesn't matter much if your body is not perfectly parallel but try to keep it as close to parallel as is practical.
Oh, and keep your head raised. A good way to do this is find a spot on the wall and stare at it. It doesnt have to be super high, just make sure it doesn't drop. This will insure you don't develop a curve in your upper back.
Oh, and keep your head raised. A good way to do this is find a spot on the wall and stare at it. It doesnt have to be super high, just make sure it doesn't drop. This will insure you don't develop a curve in your upper back.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-05-25 19:12:53)
this is my problem though. i try as hard as possible to pull the weight up to my chest. if i dont ill get demotivated and i dont feel like im making any gains.Jaekus wrote:
Just maintain a straight back as parallel to the floor as possible with shoulder blades squeezed in and pull the bar to around the bottom of your rib cage. It doesn't matter much if your body is not perfectly parallel but try to keep it as close to parallel as is practical.
for all my other exercises, i can feel when my muscles have failed to maintain proper form. for barbell row i can just increase the angle of my lower back. and i just dont know when to stop raising my back
Your lower back should be straight like your upper back so the angle you're talking of would be your entire torso, not just your lower back. Your chest can tend to lift (but keep a straight back) as you go through the completion of a heavy weight rep; before and afterwards you should return to an as close to parallel torso. Remember to pull your shoulder blades in the entire time; it can be difficult but necessary for proper form.
I typically bend my knees to balance my bodyweight against the weight of the BB to maintain a straight back that's close to parallel.
One school of though I read is to not bring it to your chest, but towards your belly button, as this targets the lats more. I'm not sure either way tbh, but I've tried bringing it up to my belly button and it does indeed feel like it's working my lats more. Nowadays I tend to go between both ideas and aim to bring the BB to the bottom of my rib cage.
I typically bend my knees to balance my bodyweight against the weight of the BB to maintain a straight back that's close to parallel.
One school of though I read is to not bring it to your chest, but towards your belly button, as this targets the lats more. I'm not sure either way tbh, but I've tried bringing it up to my belly button and it does indeed feel like it's working my lats more. Nowadays I tend to go between both ideas and aim to bring the BB to the bottom of my rib cage.
I always raise my head as I peak. I feel there's a greater range of motion that way. I could be wrong though. It's just a personal philosophy.Jaekus wrote:
Just maintain a straight back as parallel to the floor as possible with shoulder blades squeezed in and pull the bar to around the bottom of your rib cage. It doesn't matter much if your body is not perfectly parallel but try to keep it as close to parallel as is practical.
Oh, and keep your head raised. A good way to do this is find a spot on the wall and stare at it. It doesnt have to be super high, just make sure it doesn't drop. This will insure you don't develop a curve in your upper back.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
For the love of god, please stop taking SL5x5 so literally. We've been over this time and time again about Arnie in SL5x5. It's NOT TRUE. Arnold did not do anything like the 5x5 workout that Mehdi suggests. I've read the books, the interviews and seen his workouts, and he has never EVER done a 5x5 workout in his career of bodybuilding. Mehdi just made it up to make it look even better, and naturally people take it for serious because they don't research it enough.Jaekus wrote:
Have you even read the SL5x5 report? He uses Arnie as a benchmark a lot of the time and puts up pics of him as being the vision of someone who looks strong.
Also, read:
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/mehdi-fr … -lose-fat/
Mehdi might have good advice in general speaking terms, but the guy is not a model you should follow religiously because he isn't a pro nor is he a doctor/physician etc. His advice should always be taken with a pinch of salt and researched more to see if it is backed up by other people. He is, after all, just an average joe that did a bit of strength training.
As for barbell rows - your form should be however close to horizontal you can manage with your back. Everybody is different (all human being can extend to the floor, but most humans have tight hamstrings that don't allow them to do so) so it entirely depends on your posture. For example, I cannot go entirely horizontal and the barbell has to be lifted off the ground for me to do the rows. It's still the correct form because I'm still keeping my back straight and rowing INTO my stomach.
Keep your spine aligned, don't look up and bend down as far as you can go without rounding your back. Kick out your ass, pick up the barbell and start pulling into your stomach (just below your ribcage). If you can go horizontal and get the bar just off the ground then even better, but you don't need to do so, you just need to make sure you're rowing into your stomach and your back is straight, legs bent and ass out.
I wasn't aware of the Arnie thing with SL5x5. I must've missed those posts.
I certainly don't take a lot of what he says as gospel, some of it I'm pretty sceptical of, truth be told.
I certainly don't take a lot of what he says as gospel, some of it I'm pretty sceptical of, truth be told.
As am I. He shows the basic knowledge of a person looking for a bit of strength and some muscle, but nobody who has researched it enough for me to look at him and think that he's right.Jaekus wrote:
I wasn't aware of the Arnie thing with SL5x5. I must've missed those posts.
I certainly don't take a lot of what he says as gospel, some of it I'm pretty sceptical of, truth be told.
Yeah I've done a lot of reading over the past 6 or so months and I find some stuff many different people say on a range of sites, including reference to proper science backed research, to which Mehdi says "don't believe that crap, I'm right and here's (his theory as to) why".
I had a few alarms ringing when I first read the SL5x5 report, like "all muscle gains are equal to strength gains". But at the start he said he had the muscle without the strength, so he contradicts himself from the outset.
The workout itself seems sound though, after doing it for a couple months I definitely feel stronger. I'm finding this 3x8 program I started this week to be good so far, it's helping me correct small form errors I had picked up without realising, like my bench press (thanks to reading the chapter on it in SS).
I had a few alarms ringing when I first read the SL5x5 report, like "all muscle gains are equal to strength gains". But at the start he said he had the muscle without the strength, so he contradicts himself from the outset.
The workout itself seems sound though, after doing it for a couple months I definitely feel stronger. I'm finding this 3x8 program I started this week to be good so far, it's helping me correct small form errors I had picked up without realising, like my bench press (thanks to reading the chapter on it in SS).
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-05-26 07:27:58)
I generally think everyones is different you probably need an exercise programme that suits you. Sick of hearing this 5x5 bullshit.
Did some concentration curls and hammer curls, hammers work your forearms quite a bit. Shit's good got some good ache on my bi's since forever.
Did some concentration curls and hammer curls, hammers work your forearms quite a bit. Shit's good got some good ache on my bi's since forever.
Last edited by wah1188 (2011-05-26 12:34:45)
5x5 can work great for some (actually, most) people.
especially to start with when youve never lifted before.
But when you go for a split you definitely need to find something that suits you personally.
especially to start with when youve never lifted before.
But when you go for a split you definitely need to find something that suits you personally.