For those that believe in the Happy Housewife myth...

2011-05-09 17:13:11

#26

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.

How do you wrap your mind around shit like that? Why was anything done to remedy the situation of women and black people in American society? Why, it was because they were in fact victims at one point in time. Why does anything get remedied? To right a wrong. The two are inextricably linked. Are women still victims? No, not really any more than men are.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:14:34

#27

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

i would love to stay at home all day....and these women dont stay at home all day. i see them all over the place on my days off.

2011-05-09 17:16:29

#28

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.

precisely. I.E. the cultural left that replaced the 'reformist left' i was talking about. i.e. the left that actually took active influence from marxism, communism, and continental-european (specifically french) thought. how ironic is it, then, when john throws some shit at me trying to insinuate i'm professing a french viewpoint? hilarious. guy has next to no clue.

11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:17:42

#29

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.
How do you wrap your mind around shit like that? Why was anything done to remedy the situation of women and black people in American society? Why, it was because they were in fact victims at one point in time. Why does anything get remedied? To right a wrong. The two are inextricably linked. Are women still victims? No, not really any more than men are.

there's a noticeable divide between civil-rights, reformist, humanist politics in america pre-vietnam and post-vietnam. a vast amount of literature has been written on this change. the easiest and simplest is 'reclaiming our country' by rorty. go read some, you seem to get a boner pretending to be an intellectual libertarian.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:18:17

#30

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5844

Ughh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism

Sommers describes equity feminism as an ideology rooted in classical liberalism, and that aims for full civil and legal equality for women. Experimental psychologist Steven Pinker[2] expands on Sommers to write, "Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology."

Gender feminism is an empirical doctrine committed to three claims about human nature...The third is that human interactions arise not from the motives of people dealing with each other as individuals but from the motives of groups dealing with other groups -- in this case, the male gender dominating the female gender

Like I said, you aren't arguing an libertarian point in this thread. You're making an academic left argument and trying to frame it in a libertarian worldview. It doesn't work.

2011-05-09 17:19:12

#31

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Uzique wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.
precisely. I.E. the cultural left that replaced the 'reformist left' i was talking about. i.e. the left that actually took active influence from marxism, communism, and continental-european (specifically french) thought. how ironic is it, then, when john throws some shit at me trying to insinuate i'm professing a french viewpoint? hilarious. guy has next to no clue.

11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.

Clearly went over your head:

https://pics.livejournal.com/ima_pseudonym/pic/000s2de6

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:19:53

#32

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

feminism can suck my dong... the one theoretical point of my degree that i purposefully evaded for 3 years. covered every other major discourse but facepalmed feminism. it's fucking dumb. reading kathy acker was literally the worst experience of my life. ella price's journal? holy shit, get out

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:20:12

#33

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Uzique wrote:
Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.
How do you wrap your mind around shit like that? Why was anything done to remedy the situation of women and black people in American society? Why, it was because they were in fact victims at one point in time. Why does anything get remedied? To right a wrong. The two are inextricably linked. Are women still victims? No, not really any more than men are.
there's a noticeable divide between civil-rights, reformist, humanist politics in america pre-vietnam and post-vietnam. a vast amount of literature has been written on this change. the easiest and simplest is 'reclaiming our country' by rorty. go read some, you seem to get a boner pretending to be an intellectual libertarian.

Dude, would you fuck off? You don't know anything about America. You're a tiresome twit, now go back to pretending you have anything to look forward to in life.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:21:42

#34

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
John you aren't even arguing the libertarian form of feminism but instead the highly academic left "women are victims" feminism. You know the antithesis to libertarianism.
precisely. I.E. the cultural left that replaced the 'reformist left' i was talking about. i.e. the left that actually took active influence from marxism, communism, and continental-european (specifically french) thought. how ironic is it, then, when john throws some shit at me trying to insinuate i'm professing a french viewpoint? hilarious. guy has next to no clue.

11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.
Clearly went over your head:
http://pics.livejournal.com/ima_pseudonym/pic/000s2de6

like most libertarian theory, then

rofl at your last post. at least i don't spend my time actively talking about a political science i know nada about.

go back to pretending to being intellectual

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:22:47

#35

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

Uzique wrote:
11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.

going shopping, eating with friends, watching some tube, cooking,.........

seems sort of relaxing if you ask me.

2011-05-09 17:23:11

#36

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:
Jay wrote:

How do you wrap your mind around shit like that? Why was anything done to remedy the situation of women and black people in American society? Why, it was because they were in fact victims at one point in time. Why does anything get remedied? To right a wrong. The two are inextricably linked. Are women still victims? No, not really any more than men are.
there's a noticeable divide between civil-rights, reformist, humanist politics in america pre-vietnam and post-vietnam. a vast amount of literature has been written on this change. the easiest and simplest is 'reclaiming our country' by rorty. go read some, you seem to get a boner pretending to be an intellectual libertarian.
Dude, would you fuck off? You don't know anything about America. You're a tiresome twit, now go back to pretending you have anything to look forward to in life.

can guarantee i've read more of american philosophy and literature than you, have read more american polit-sci and more american theory. but oh wait, do you mean i had to grow up in a poor house in a shithole in NY and needed to go to a shitty naval college to know anything about your country? in that case i don't meet your level of education. carry on being a 'libertarian', hahaha

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:23:31

#37

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

11 Bravo wrote:
Uzique wrote:
11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.
going shopping, eating with friends, watching some tube, cooking,.........

seems sort of relaxing if you ask me.

all day... every day? come on man, it's a vapid and shallow existence

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:23:36

#38

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Macbeth wrote:
Ughh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism
Sommers describes equity feminism as an ideology rooted in classical liberalism, and that aims for full civil and legal equality for women. Experimental psychologist Steven Pinker[2] expands on Sommers to write, "Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology."
Gender feminism is an empirical doctrine committed to three claims about human nature...The third is that human interactions arise not from the motives of people dealing with each other as individuals but from the motives of groups dealing with other groups -- in this case, the male gender dominating the female gender
Like I said, you aren't arguing an libertarian point in this thread. You're making an academic left argument and trying to frame it in a libertarian worldview. It doesn't work.

What makes the two separable in your eyes? Libertarianism isn't some set of ideals completely divorced from everything else. There is a lot of overlap.

Are you against the destruction of Jim Crow laws too?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:24:30

#39

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5437|Sydney

Jay wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
It seems like in the 50s the gender stereotypes were so entrenched in society that to be different as a couple would be frowned upon by your friends and neighbours. I guess the social pressures of conformity had to have its bubble burst eventually, hence the social revolution of the 60s.
Yep. And the social conservatives in this nation would love nothing more than to turn back the clock to that very same repressed time. They've built up a mythology in which the strong (white) male goes off to work with his lunch pail in the morning, works in his office or factory job, and returns home to have dinner on the table followed by TV time in the family room before bed. The woman stays home to take care of the house. The kids are well adjusted and work hard in school (and of course, stay away from drugs and alcohol).

If you've ever seen the movie Pleasantville it's a good representation of what these types of people believe we should be trying to return to. Nevermind that the system broke for a good reason: it wasn't sustainable, people aren't robots.

Springs to mind the Truman Show, and his breaking out of the show was kinda like an analogy of what happened socially in the 60s.

2011-05-09 17:24:42

#40

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

Uzique wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
Uzique wrote:
11-b i think it sucks for these women because they're coerced into having no ambition and no goals in their lives. doing fuck all can hardly be that fun.
going shopping, eating with friends, watching some tube, cooking,.........

seems sort of relaxing if you ask me.
all day... every day? come on man, it's a vapid and shallow existence

one can argue 2 hours in traffic and 9 hours behind a desk is exactly that. ( i dont do that but a ton of people do)

2011-05-09 17:24:49

#41

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6727

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ughh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism
Sommers describes equity feminism as an ideology rooted in classical liberalism, and that aims for full civil and legal equality for women. Experimental psychologist Steven Pinker[2] expands on Sommers to write, "Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology."
Gender feminism is an empirical doctrine committed to three claims about human nature...The third is that human interactions arise not from the motives of people dealing with each other as individuals but from the motives of groups dealing with other groups -- in this case, the male gender dominating the female gender
Like I said, you aren't arguing an libertarian point in this thread. You're making an academic left argument and trying to frame it in a libertarian worldview. It doesn't work.
What makes the two separable in your eyes? Libertarianism isn't some set of ideals completely divorced from everything else. There is a lot of overlap.

Are you against the destruction of Jim Crow laws too?

I don't think you want to go there.

2011-05-09 17:24:54

#42

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Uzique wrote:
Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:

there's a noticeable divide between civil-rights, reformist, humanist politics in america pre-vietnam and post-vietnam. a vast amount of literature has been written on this change. the easiest and simplest is 'reclaiming our country' by rorty. go read some, you seem to get a boner pretending to be an intellectual libertarian.
Dude, would you fuck off? You don't know anything about America. You're a tiresome twit, now go back to pretending you have anything to look forward to in life.
can guarantee i've read more of american philosophy and literature than you, have read more american polit-sci and more american theory. but oh wait, do you mean i had to grow up in a poor house in a shithole in NY and needed to go to a shitty naval college to know anything about your country? in that case i don't meet your level of education. carry on being a 'libertarian', hahaha

Miserable, miserable little twit. No friends. No prospects. Ugly girlfriend. Your life sucks.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:26:41

#43

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

hahahaha amazing. i love making you angry by being smarter than you. does it make you rage? clearly. yeah i have no friends, no prospects and my girlfriend is ugly. you're 30 years old and you act like a little bitch when you get called out. top-rate d&st intellectual right here.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:29:08

#44

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

you guys have age issues around here

2011-05-09 17:29:17

#45

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Uzique wrote:
hahahaha amazing. i love making you angry by being smarter than you. does it make you rage? clearly. yeah i have no friends, no prospects and my girlfriend is ugly. you're 30 years old and you act like a little bitch when you get called out. top-rate d&st intellectual right here.

I'm not angry at all Uzique. Why would I get mad about something someone said on a message board, especially when the person making the insults is doing so at 2:30 AM his time on the other side of the Atlantic. You've clearly got a lot going on in your life if you're sitting here wanking at the keyboard. Did you just finish your raid with your WoW friends? Unwinding now? You're such a cool guy Uzique. Tell us all the story about that time you got high on cocaine again. It adds to your legend every time you do.

I'm just sitting here drinking a beer and waiting for the Mets game to come on in ten minutes. Not mad. Amused.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-09 17:29:35

#46

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5844

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ughh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism
Sommers describes equity feminism as an ideology rooted in classical liberalism, and that aims for full civil and legal equality for women. Experimental psychologist Steven Pinker[2] expands on Sommers to write, "Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology."
Gender feminism is an empirical doctrine committed to three claims about human nature...The third is that human interactions arise not from the motives of people dealing with each other as individuals but from the motives of groups dealing with other groups -- in this case, the male gender dominating the female gender
Like I said, you aren't arguing an libertarian point in this thread. You're making an academic left argument and trying to frame it in a libertarian worldview. It doesn't work.
What makes the two separable in your eyes? Libertarianism isn't some set of ideals completely divorced from everything else. There is a lot of overlap.

Are you against the destruction of Jim Crow laws too?

The thing that separates them is : one deals with LAW and one deals with CULTURE. Libertarianism and equity feminism isn't about culture, it's about law. A Jim crow law violates the "legal and civil equality" idea in equity feminism and in the larger libertarianism framework.

You're OP was about a cultural trend or view. It falls into the gender feminism which is the preach professorially QQ feminism.

2011-05-09 17:29:56

#47

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5437|Sydney

11 Bravo wrote:
i would love to stay at home all day....and these women dont stay at home all day. i see them all over the place on my days off.

Do you ask them what they are up to, or are you just making assumptions?
Not saying you're right or wrong, but just saying you see them doesn't really amount to anything.

2011-05-09 17:30:55

#48

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5844

Macbeth wrote:
Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ughh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism
Sommers describes equity feminism as an ideology rooted in classical liberalism, and that aims for full civil and legal equality for women. Experimental psychologist Steven Pinker[2] expands on Sommers to write, "Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology."
Like I said, you aren't arguing an libertarian point in this thread. You're making an academic left argument and trying to frame it in a libertarian worldview. It doesn't work.
What makes the two separable in your eyes? Libertarianism isn't some set of ideals completely divorced from everything else. There is a lot of overlap.

Are you against the destruction of Jim Crow laws too?
The thing that separates them is : one deals with LAW and one deals with CULTURE. Libertarianism and equity feminism isn't about culture, it's about law. A Jim crow law violates the "legal and civil equality" idea in equity feminism and in the larger libertarianism framework.

You're OP was about a cultural trend or view. It falls into the gender feminism which is the preach professorially QQ feminism.

And you're trying your damnest to make it fit in with your world view. Which it won't.

2011-05-09 17:32:09

#49

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:
hahahaha amazing. i love making you angry by being smarter than you. does it make you rage? clearly. yeah i have no friends, no prospects and my girlfriend is ugly. you're 30 years old and you act like a little bitch when you get called out. top-rate d&st intellectual right here.
I'm not angry at all Uzique. Why would I get mad about something someone said on a message board, especially when the person making the insults is doing so at 2:30 AM his time on the other side of the Atlantic. You've clearly got a lot going on in your life if you're sitting here wanking at the keyboard. Did you just finish your raid with your WoW friends? Unwinding now? You're such a cool guy Uzique. Tell us all the story about that time you got high on cocaine again. It adds to your legend every time you do.

I'm just sitting here drinking a beer and waiting for the Mets game to come on in ten minutes. Not mad. Amused.

it's a monday night, it's 1:30am, all the pubs around here stop serving at 1am. i've been here for about 30 minutes.

amazing, though. amazing. please give me more top-rate d&st loquacity.

if i tell you an anecdote about a time i did drugs, will you call me ugly and say my gf is fat again? ooh i love that part!

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-09 17:32:35

#50

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

Jaekus wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
i would love to stay at home all day....and these women dont stay at home all day. i see them all over the place on my days off.
Do you ask them what they are up to, or are you just making assumptions?
Not saying you're right or wrong, but just saying you see them doesn't really amount to anything.

well if i go to the mall of america on a weekday i seem them and their friends pushing their kids around laughing and browsing. or see them at target doing some shopping. or at a restaurant with their friends eating and laughing. etc. i dunno dude. my mom had to work (after my dad died). to me that is 1000000% times harder than a stay at home wife.

BF2S Forums For those that believe in the Happy Housewife myth...

Macbeth wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Uzique wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

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