we call it current events fatherted.FatherTed wrote:
see this shit cuts straight to the bone - my mother and father, and thus myself might not be alive were it not for the ineptitude of irish bombers. yet you single out islam as 'the issue' when this sort of behaviour is commonplace geographically and historically?
disgusting tbh
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Real-I … 62324.htmllowing wrote:
we call it current events fatherted.FatherTed wrote:
see this shit cuts straight to the bone - my mother and father, and thus myself might not be alive were it not for the ineptitude of irish bombers. yet you single out islam as 'the issue' when this sort of behaviour is commonplace geographically and historically?
disgusting tbh
I think those kids are ready. Send them out to the real world, they have the comprehension of your average adult.
Though that one girl going "WHY WOULD YOU FEEL BAD?" sounded kinda Hitler Youth-ey.
1993!!!! I can probably go back 10 minutes in the ME and knock waco out of the park.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Nah, we just lay siege to them and burn them out. It's not as bad if they're other Americans, though.lowing wrote:
Well as I said, even in our darkest hour, blowing up women and children was not standard practice...
I do not live in an ivory tower. I have been around the world been to the ME. However, if you think because I have not been blown up, that I can not look at those that have, and those that did it, and there proclaimed reasons behind it, and form an opinion about it, WITHOUT trying to empathize as to how and why they would blow up women and children, destroy efforts to improve lives, and have their fellow citizens live in terror well, we will just have to agree to disagree.FatherTed wrote:
seriously lowing it is easy for you in your ivory tower to proclaim modern terrorism as the territory of muslims, when you and your immediate family have not had to live through it.
example, my father was interred in N.Ire on the basis he was a Catholic irishman for 2 months. i and my father (used to be) regularly stopped and searched within the EU for travelling as Catholic irish. When i was attending university in Belfast, we would on average have a day per fortnight where the army cordoned off the site because of a viable bomb.
so 9/11 ruled your life?
What the heck did I say to deserve that?Cybargs wrote:
sooner or later gods gonna cut you down.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So, why didn't the U.S. keep it secret that they found the biggest treasure trove of information on Osama's HDDs? They're sending a message out to everybody who might be linked to him to lay low for a while.
Would be funny if the only thing on those harddrives was porn.
Answer the question and don't be a c**t.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
ummm not something the American public condoned, and they were court marshaled for it, were they not? and you did not I said as a standard practice right?Jaekus wrote:
lowing wrote:
Well as I said, even in our darkest hour, blowing up women and children was not standard practice...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_MassacreThe My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai [mǐˀ lɐːj]; English pronunciation: /ˌmiːˈlaɪ/ ( listen), also /ˌmiːˈleɪ, ˌmaɪˈlaɪ/,[1] Vietnamese: [mǐˀlaːj]) was the mass murder of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, conducted by a unit of the United States Army. All of the victims were civilians and most were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many of the victims were raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.[2]
The massacre took place in the hamlets of Mỹ Lai and My Khe of Sơn Mỹ village during the Vietnam War.[3][4] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted of killing 22 villagers. Originally given a life sentence, he served three and a half years under house arrest.
When the incident became public knowledge in 1969, it prompted widespread outrage around the world. The massacre also increased domestic opposition to the US involvement in the Vietnam War. Three US servicemen who made an effort to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were later denounced by US Congressmen. They received hate mail, death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps.[5] It would take 30 years before they were honored for their efforts.[6]
The massacre is also known as the 'Sơn Mỹ Massacre' (Vietnamese: thảm sát Sơn Mỹ) or sometimes as the 'Song My Massacre.'[7] The US military codeword for the hamlet was Pinkville.[8]
You use McVeigh 20 years ago, and then say it only SEEMS to happen more in the ME..gimme a break.Jaekus wrote:
It should also be pointed out (as is obvious, but it seems not to be so for some) that suicide bombers aren't stanard Muslim practice either, they're extremists, much like Timothy McVeigh was. There just seems to be more of them in action over there.Shocking wrote:
If we look at Afghanistan and Iraq today the western forces don't target civilians, at all. Yes, collateral damage happens and I know that whether or not they were targetted doesn't make a difference for the families of the victims. But; they are not killed intentionally.
You can cite examples from history but the point is that we have learnt from that. We use more sophisticated equipment and handle operations with way more care.
But yes I recognise the point is that the behavior isn't exclusive to Muslims.
yeah the attitude about Islam and ME is my doing, I am responsible for it all. I write all the articles, run all the websites, do all the reporting, hell I even plant the IED's and blow up all the market places just to make Islam look bad. THe Kurds? Yeah I did that......You should see what I am doing now, and pinning it on Pakistan. Very cool.Uzique wrote:
civ killings happen a lot more in iraq/afghanistan than you'd know. you seem to be a bit textbook in your view of the military. lots of stories around about troops killing civilians for fun, out of boredom or frustration, and then covering it up in the reports or using weapons seized from insurgency/afghan military. it's war and bad shit like this happens all the time. nothing has changed between vietnam and now when it comes to human ethics. all the RoE codes and international laws in the world don't matter for shit, it's just a pretense.Shocking wrote:
The RoEs that are in place limit military action in a lot of instances exactly because people are conscious about not killing civillians. It's regarded as inhumane, unnecessary and extremely counterproductive.Uzique wrote:
the only improvement has been in the precision and efficiency of your technology. the ethics haven't changed.
Advances in the precision of the military tech have been made for exactly the same reasons. Not only efficiency, the ethics play a role in it as well.
and usm i say 'your' and not 'our' because this is a thread about bin laden being killed so i'm in the habit of discussing it as an american thing. for the sake of this argument, 'our' doesn't really fit because we don't have the same opinions about the islamic world and muslims that you (or more specifically lowing) does.
Last edited by lowing (2011-05-08 17:14:06)
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course notlowing wrote:
ummm not something the American public condoned, and they were court marshaled for it, were they not? and you did not I said as a standard practice right?Jaekus wrote:
lowing wrote:
Well as I said, even in our darkest hour, blowing up women and children was not standard practice...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_MassacreThe My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai [mǐˀ lɐːj]; English pronunciation: /ˌmiːˈlaɪ/ ( listen), also /ˌmiːˈleɪ, ˌmaɪˈlaɪ/,[1] Vietnamese: [mǐˀlaːj]) was the mass murder of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, conducted by a unit of the United States Army. All of the victims were civilians and most were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many of the victims were raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.[2]
The massacre took place in the hamlets of Mỹ Lai and My Khe of Sơn Mỹ village during the Vietnam War.[3][4] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted of killing 22 villagers. Originally given a life sentence, he served three and a half years under house arrest.
When the incident became public knowledge in 1969, it prompted widespread outrage around the world. The massacre also increased domestic opposition to the US involvement in the Vietnam War. Three US servicemen who made an effort to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were later denounced by US Congressmen. They received hate mail, death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps.[5] It would take 30 years before they were honored for their efforts.[6]
The massacre is also known as the 'Sơn Mỹ Massacre' (Vietnamese: thảm sát Sơn Mỹ) or sometimes as the 'Song My Massacre.'[7] The US military codeword for the hamlet was Pinkville.[8]
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course notlowing wrote:
ummm not something the American public condoned, and they were court marshaled for it, were they not? and you did not I said as a standard practice right?Jaekus wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacrelowing wrote:
Well as I said, even in our darkest hour, blowing up women and children was not standard practice...
People are murdered and raped in America everyday, does that mean rape and murder is standard practice in America?lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course notlowing wrote:
ummm not something the American public condoned, and they were court marshaled for it, were they not? and you did not I said as a standard practice right?
You're frightfully pig headed if you think it happens "practically every day".lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course notlowing wrote:
ummm not something the American public condoned, and they were court marshaled for it, were they not? and you did not I said as a standard practice right?
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_at … motivationRadical Muslims who advocate for violence against targets that include civilians believe they will enter paradise as a reward for their actions, however many mainstream Muslim theologians have vehemently opposed their interpretations and decried attacks on civilians as unjustified violence and sins in Islam.
...
Even though suicide is forbidden in Islam, some conservative, influential Muslim scholars including most notably Yusuf al-Qaradawi have justified suicide bombings when the perpetrators are occupied or acting in self-defense without other available means to defend themselves.[57] However, many scholars of Islam have pointed out that classically, Islam does not justify suicide bombings. For example, Bernard Lewis states, "The emergence of the now widespread terrorism practice of suicide bombing is a development of the 20th century. It has no antecedents in Islamic history, and no justification in terms of Islamic theology, law, or tradition."[44] Respected Muslim scholars have also made statements and fatwas condemning suicide bombings as terrorism that is prohibited in Islam with the perpetrators being destined to hell.[43] In condemning suicide attacks, Muslim scholar Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri directly targeted the rationale of Islamists by stating, "Violence is violence. It has no place in Islamic teaching, and no justification can be provided to it...good intention cannot justify a wrong and forbidden act".[43]
According to Charles Kimball, chair of the Department of Religion at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, "There is only one verse in the Qur'an that contains a phrase related to suicide", Surah 4 verse 29 of the Quran.[58] It reads:
O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
Some commentators believe that the phrase "do not kill yourselves" is better translated "do not kill each other", and some translations (e.g., by Shakir) reflect that view.[59] Mainstream Islamic groups such as the European Council for Fatwa and Research also cite the Quranic verse Al-Anam 6:151 as prohibiting suicide: "And take not life, which Allah has made sacred, except by way of justice and law".[60] In addition, the Hadith unambiguously forbid suicide including Bukhari 2:445, "The Prophet said, '...whoever commits suicide with a piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire," and "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.".[61][62]
Some academics have suggested that only by terrorist leaders such as Osama bin Laden becoming suicide bombers and "being martyred publically [sic] by the authorities" could the popularity of such attacks be increased.[63]
In January 2006, one of Shia Islam's highest ranking Marja clerics, Ayatollah al-Udhma Yousof al-Sanei also decreed a fatwa against suicide bombing, declaring it as a "terrorist act".[64
Hardly "standard practice" like you choose to believe.
ownedNic wrote:
People are murdered and raped in America everyday, does that mean rape and murder is standard practice in America?lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course not
Are you really saying it is the same thing? really?Nic wrote:
People are murdered and raped in America everyday, does that mean rape and murder is standard practice in America?lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course not
You said it.lowing wrote:
Are you really saying it is the same thing? really?Nic wrote:
People are murdered and raped in America everyday, does that mean rape and murder is standard practice in America?lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell me
he's got you there lowing. as a matter afact, they all have you there.
I said practically every day....Also you know what I meant. It happens more often as to not be considered a rare occurrence . Hell you had to go back 2o fuckin years in the US to try and make a point. I could probalby find something this monthJaekus wrote:
You're frightfully pig headed if you think it happens "practically every day".lowing wrote:
I dunno when it happens practically every day, you tell meJaekus wrote:
Is blowing up women and children standard practice of Muslim people? Of course not
Also:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_at … motivationRadical Muslims who advocate for violence against targets that include civilians believe they will enter paradise as a reward for their actions, however many mainstream Muslim theologians have vehemently opposed their interpretations and decried attacks on civilians as unjustified violence and sins in Islam.
...
Even though suicide is forbidden in Islam, some conservative, influential Muslim scholars including most notably Yusuf al-Qaradawi have justified suicide bombings when the perpetrators are occupied or acting in self-defense without other available means to defend themselves.[57] However, many scholars of Islam have pointed out that classically, Islam does not justify suicide bombings. For example, Bernard Lewis states, "The emergence of the now widespread terrorism practice of suicide bombing is a development of the 20th century. It has no antecedents in Islamic history, and no justification in terms of Islamic theology, law, or tradition."[44] Respected Muslim scholars have also made statements and fatwas condemning suicide bombings as terrorism that is prohibited in Islam with the perpetrators being destined to hell.[43] In condemning suicide attacks, Muslim scholar Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri directly targeted the rationale of Islamists by stating, "Violence is violence. It has no place in Islamic teaching, and no justification can be provided to it...good intention cannot justify a wrong and forbidden act".[43]
According to Charles Kimball, chair of the Department of Religion at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, "There is only one verse in the Qur'an that contains a phrase related to suicide", Surah 4 verse 29 of the Quran.[58] It reads:
O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
Some commentators believe that the phrase "do not kill yourselves" is better translated "do not kill each other", and some translations (e.g., by Shakir) reflect that view.[59] Mainstream Islamic groups such as the European Council for Fatwa and Research also cite the Quranic verse Al-Anam 6:151 as prohibiting suicide: "And take not life, which Allah has made sacred, except by way of justice and law".[60] In addition, the Hadith unambiguously forbid suicide including Bukhari 2:445, "The Prophet said, '...whoever commits suicide with a piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire," and "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.".[61][62]
Some academics have suggested that only by terrorist leaders such as Osama bin Laden becoming suicide bombers and "being martyred publically [sic] by the authorities" could the popularity of such attacks be increased.[63]
In January 2006, one of Shia Islam's highest ranking Marja clerics, Ayatollah al-Udhma Yousof al-Sanei also decreed a fatwa against suicide bombing, declaring it as a "terrorist act".[64
Hardly "standard practice" like you choose to believe.
ok well if you think strapping on a suicide vest and blowing up a marketplace to induce terror, is the same thing as a criminal raping a women in the park, we are just gunna have to agree to disagree...Nic wrote:
You said it.lowing wrote:
Are you really saying it is the same thing? really?Nic wrote:
People are murdered and raped in America everyday, does that mean rape and murder is standard practice in America?
No, you can't weasel out of this one. You said "standard practice". The above shows it is anything but standard practice in the mainstream Islamic world, it is extremist, just like Timothy McVeigh was. Despite frequency or timeline, my point still stands.
Lol point missed, as per the norm.
no your point is ridiculousNic wrote:
Lol point missed, as per the norm.
why not add the 20,000 people a year killed in car accidents as standard practice....your point is bullshit
there are many Timothy McVeigh plots foiled by the feds FREQUENTLY and the damage they can inflict is usually way worse then the one's hatched by muslim extremist.
Accident vs. a deliberate act like rape and murder?lowing wrote:
why not add the 20,000 people a year killed in car accidents as standard practice....your point is bullshit
You're losing it mate.