9/11 was 10 years ago, not 4 generations ago. You can be impacted by OBL and his cronies by something more than a brick falling on your head. Our country has suffered economic turmoil over this, people have lost jobs over this. Our country has lost a sense of security and stability over this. We have been after this bastard for a decade, and have finally got him, it is completely understandable the reaction seen by this event.Kmar wrote:
Oh, well in that case obviously something like this means different things to different people. However, there is an impulse people have to get caught up in the moment.. whether the news actually had any relation to their lives or not.lowing wrote:
Uzi's attitude is, it is wrong and barbaric to celebrate or see the the pictures of a dead bin laden, as if, speaking from his perch. By him emulating that attitude, I am saying it is somewhat hypocritical to besmirch another that does want to see them. If you don't want to see them don't look.Kmar wrote:
I'm genuinely confused. Where did you get "you insist that NO ONE be able to see the pictures. Kinda smug considering," lowing?
He says the world is full of different opinions, yet he calls people stupid or wantS to "take up a collection and send them back to kindergarten" because of opinions that differ from his on. Hope that clears it up for you.
Here's an example. Everytime we get wind that Castro may be dead they throw all kinds of parties in Miami. I asked some of my cuban friends once what they thought about that. They said it's just bullshit. Most of the people who are in Miami that are Cuban are fourth generation or more. Neither they nor their family have never been to Cuba, let alone had to live under Castro.
I have some friends that have moved here from Cuba (Cuban Born). One of my friends had to get out of Cuba when he was 12 basically because his Dad spoke out about some things while he was in the military. He was blacklisted so to speak, and truly felt like his life was in danger. So he had to drop everything he had ever worked for in his life and get out. To me it's people like this that should be celebrating the death of an oppressive dictator. Not people who couldn't name three cities in Cuba.
When I see people getting overly emotional over things they have no business getting emotional over it's sort of mocking the people who are truly attached to the situation. Personally I try not to judge people on things like this though. I mean, you just never know. But like uzi, I have a hard time believing so many people were so impacted by the death of OBL that they felt they had to throw mega parties. That isn't to say you should necessarily feel shameful for being happy that OBL was killed. God no. But that level of happiness should be relative.
The point is that they were separated from the situation. Personally I haven't thought about that bearded pole smoke in very very long time. It certainly didn't dominate my daily thoughts, like perhaps it does with those who have lost a friend or family member in the war or the attacks. The economic turmoil we endure now has very little to do with that man. It's a lending crisis at it's core. The idea that OBL has had this economy stuck in the mud and that it's not a result of our financial policies is ridiculous. As a fan of personal responsibility you should be able to see right through that and recognize it for what it is.. a scapegoat. That loss of a sense of security is also exaggerated. If one looks at the situation logically it's VERY easy to regain a sense of security. Then perhaps they won't be subject to kneejerk emotional whims that allow our politicians to manipulate policy. That's a far greater threat to our freedoms than Osama Bin Laden.lowing wrote:
9/11 was 10 years ago, not 4 generations ago. You can be impacted by OBL and his cronies by something more than a brick falling on your head. Our country has suffered economic turmoil over this, people have lost jobs over this. Our country has lost a sense of security and stability over this. We have been after this bastard for a decade, and have finally got him, it is completely understandable the reaction seen by this event.Kmar wrote:
Oh, well in that case obviously something like this means different things to different people. However, there is an impulse people have to get caught up in the moment.. whether the news actually had any relation to their lives or not.lowing wrote:
Uzi's attitude is, it is wrong and barbaric to celebrate or see the the pictures of a dead bin laden, as if, speaking from his perch. By him emulating that attitude, I am saying it is somewhat hypocritical to besmirch another that does want to see them. If you don't want to see them don't look.
He says the world is full of different opinions, yet he calls people stupid or wantS to "take up a collection and send them back to kindergarten" because of opinions that differ from his on. Hope that clears it up for you.
Here's an example. Everytime we get wind that Castro may be dead they throw all kinds of parties in Miami. I asked some of my cuban friends once what they thought about that. They said it's just bullshit. Most of the people who are in Miami that are Cuban are fourth generation or more. Neither they nor their family have never been to Cuba, let alone had to live under Castro.
I have some friends that have moved here from Cuba (Cuban Born). One of my friends had to get out of Cuba when he was 12 basically because his Dad spoke out about some things while he was in the military. He was blacklisted so to speak, and truly felt like his life was in danger. So he had to drop everything he had ever worked for in his life and get out. To me it's people like this that should be celebrating the death of an oppressive dictator. Not people who couldn't name three cities in Cuba.
When I see people getting overly emotional over things they have no business getting emotional over it's sort of mocking the people who are truly attached to the situation. Personally I try not to judge people on things like this though. I mean, you just never know. But like uzi, I have a hard time believing so many people were so impacted by the death of OBL that they felt they had to throw mega parties. That isn't to say you should necessarily feel shameful for being happy that OBL was killed. God no. But that level of happiness should be relative.
Yea we got him. That's good. Am I calling in to work or skipping school? No. I'll be much more happier when, if ever, our soldiers come home. I do have connections to some of them http://is.gd/RsunhP .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
U.S. to disclose home videos of Osama bin Laden in secret compound, never made public propaganda tapes: http://apne.ws/kIYLeW
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Releasing the propaganda tapes is odd.
Last edited by Spark (2011-05-07 03:05:15)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
um
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
To: The Seal Team
On your way home could you find it in your hearts to shoot this guy in the head?
He's killed far more Brits than Islamic extremists ever have or will.
kthx
On your way home could you find it in your hearts to shoot this guy in the head?
He's killed far more Brits than Islamic extremists ever have or will.
kthx
Fuck Israel
usually is always college kids.Kmar wrote:
It looked like most of the people who were actually motivated to take to the streets were college kids. People who look for any excuse to have a party.Uzique wrote:
99% of the people cheering in the streets were completely unaffected by bin laden.
shut. the. fuck. up.Jaekus wrote:
This is one of the more ironic things I've read on here.lowing wrote:
no I am saying you are wrong because you only recognize or respect other's opinions if they agree with yours.Uzique wrote:
so i'm wrong because i don't have time for moral and ideological bigotry from either muslims or christians? ok then.
also stop trying to use big words it makes me feel funny and doesn't read well
i can debate with you fine i'd rather just not have to painfully scan through posts with the tone and style of a freshman college kid trying to impress his professor. you don't need to tailor your posts when you're talking to me to sound erudite. it's cute but honestly, we're fine.lowing wrote:
no I am saying you are wrong because you only recognize or respect other's opinions if they agree with yours.Uzique wrote:
so i'm wrong because i don't have time for moral and ideological bigotry from either muslims or christians? ok then.
also stop trying to use big words it makes me feel funny and doesn't read well
As for the insult, I will just chalk it up to your level of debating prowess.
on the matter of the 'position' that i'm standing for in this 'debate'... it's humanism. hardly a political ideology. basic human rights and basic decency and respect. you could say those were the principles your own country were founded on, a very very long time ago...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
11 Bravo wrote:
shut. the. fuck. up.Jaekus wrote:
This is one of the more ironic things I've read on here.lowing wrote:
no I am saying you are wrong because you only recognize or respect other's opinions if they agree with yours.
not really no. more of a simple statement that im sure a lot of people agree with.
As is mine, sunshine.
well then i am doing that. live up to your end of the deal.
Pretty sure no deals were made, sunny.
Or 40 something teabaggers.11 Bravo wrote:
usually is always college kids.Kmar wrote:
It looked like most of the people who were actually motivated to take to the streets were college kids. People who look for any excuse to have a party.Uzique wrote:
99% of the people cheering in the streets were completely unaffected by bin laden.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I didn't say we are fucked economically still because of OBL, but certainly in the early days of post 9/11 terrorism put us on the mat, with the US scrambling as to how t orespond, how to make sure it doesn't happen again, and all of the bullshit that has transpired in security since. and yes, when one can not carry toothpaste on a plane now and has to get anally probed to board a flight, my comments on security have not been exaggerated.Kmar wrote:
The point is that they were separated from the situation. Personally I haven't thought about that bearded pole smoke in very very long time. It certainly didn't dominate my daily thoughts, like perhaps it does with those who have lost a friend or family member in the war or the attacks. The economic turmoil we endure now has very little to do with that man. It's a lending crisis at it's core. The idea that OBL has had this economy stuck in the mud and that it's not a result of our financial policies is ridiculous. As a fan of personal responsibility you should be able to see right through that and recognize it for what it is.. a scapegoat. That loss of a sense of security is also exaggerated. If one looks at the situation logically it's VERY easy to regain a sense of security. Then perhaps they won't be subject to kneejerk emotional whims that allow our politicians to manipulate policy. That's a far greater threat to our freedoms than Osama Bin Laden.lowing wrote:
9/11 was 10 years ago, not 4 generations ago. You can be impacted by OBL and his cronies by something more than a brick falling on your head. Our country has suffered economic turmoil over this, people have lost jobs over this. Our country has lost a sense of security and stability over this. We have been after this bastard for a decade, and have finally got him, it is completely understandable the reaction seen by this event.Kmar wrote:
Oh, well in that case obviously something like this means different things to different people. However, there is an impulse people have to get caught up in the moment.. whether the news actually had any relation to their lives or not.
Here's an example. Everytime we get wind that Castro may be dead they throw all kinds of parties in Miami. I asked some of my cuban friends once what they thought about that. They said it's just bullshit. Most of the people who are in Miami that are Cuban are fourth generation or more. Neither they nor their family have never been to Cuba, let alone had to live under Castro.
I have some friends that have moved here from Cuba (Cuban Born). One of my friends had to get out of Cuba when he was 12 basically because his Dad spoke out about some things while he was in the military. He was blacklisted so to speak, and truly felt like his life was in danger. So he had to drop everything he had ever worked for in his life and get out. To me it's people like this that should be celebrating the death of an oppressive dictator. Not people who couldn't name three cities in Cuba.
When I see people getting overly emotional over things they have no business getting emotional over it's sort of mocking the people who are truly attached to the situation. Personally I try not to judge people on things like this though. I mean, you just never know. But like uzi, I have a hard time believing so many people were so impacted by the death of OBL that they felt they had to throw mega parties. That isn't to say you should necessarily feel shameful for being happy that OBL was killed. God no. But that level of happiness should be relative.
Yea we got him. That's good. Am I calling in to work or skipping school? No. I'll be much more happier when, if ever, our soldiers come home. I do have connections to some of them http://is.gd/RsunhP .
I can honestly say, I have no idea as to what you are talking about.Uzique wrote:
i can debate with you fine i'd rather just not have to painfully scan through posts with the tone and style of a freshman college kid trying to impress his professor. you don't need to tailor your posts when you're talking to me to sound erudite. it's cute but honestly, we're fine.lowing wrote:
no I am saying you are wrong because you only recognize or respect other's opinions if they agree with yours.Uzique wrote:
so i'm wrong because i don't have time for moral and ideological bigotry from either muslims or christians? ok then.
also stop trying to use big words it makes me feel funny and doesn't read well
As for the insult, I will just chalk it up to your level of debating prowess.
on the matter of the 'position' that i'm standing for in this 'debate'... it's humanism. hardly a political ideology. basic human rights and basic decency and respect. you could say those were the principles your own country were founded on, a very very long time ago...
humanism is reserved for those that act human themselves. Sorry, the atrocities committed by OBL and his following against innocent people was not humane.
no worries spark, I am sure it is targeted to only "a few"
an eye for an eye...lowing wrote:
I can honestly say, I have no idea as to what you are talking about.Uzique wrote:
i can debate with you fine i'd rather just not have to painfully scan through posts with the tone and style of a freshman college kid trying to impress his professor. you don't need to tailor your posts when you're talking to me to sound erudite. it's cute but honestly, we're fine.lowing wrote:
no I am saying you are wrong because you only recognize or respect other's opinions if they agree with yours.
As for the insult, I will just chalk it up to your level of debating prowess.
on the matter of the 'position' that i'm standing for in this 'debate'... it's humanism. hardly a political ideology. basic human rights and basic decency and respect. you could say those were the principles your own country were founded on, a very very long time ago...
humanism is reserved for those that act human themselves. Sorry, the atrocities committed by OBL and his following against innocent people was not humane.
i'd prefer it if the finest democratic example in the world didn't regress to revanchism and baying in the streets for blood
you look a lot like the extremists that you look down upon that way
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ya know, said like that, it is hard to argue against your point. +1 for winning me over in that regard.Uzique wrote:
an eye for an eye...lowing wrote:
I can honestly say, I have no idea as to what you are talking about.Uzique wrote:
i can debate with you fine i'd rather just not have to painfully scan through posts with the tone and style of a freshman college kid trying to impress his professor. you don't need to tailor your posts when you're talking to me to sound erudite. it's cute but honestly, we're fine.
on the matter of the 'position' that i'm standing for in this 'debate'... it's humanism. hardly a political ideology. basic human rights and basic decency and respect. you could say those were the principles your own country were founded on, a very very long time ago...
humanism is reserved for those that act human themselves. Sorry, the atrocities committed by OBL and his following against innocent people was not humane.
i'd prefer it if the finest democratic example in the world didn't regress to revanchism and baying in the streets for blood
you look a lot like the extremists that you look down upon that way
and like i said it's not 'ideological', i'm not being a contrarian little anti-american bitch. nor am i sympathizing with or deploring the death of a terrorist scumbag. i've even admitted earlier in this thread that the 'messy' and 'controversial' parts of this operation are, sadly and yet realistically, entirely predictable. it just wasn't going to be a textbook, perfectly-legal mission. it's osama bin laden. an exceptional case.
that said, with 'humanism' in mind and whilst we can discuss something of an 'ideal'... yeah, perhaps less drunken college kids cheering in the streets. our side are the ones that are meant to be civilized, advanced, democratic and respectful of human rights. how many times have members of this forum posted links to islamic protests or street-movements in a disgusted and dismissive tone? how many of you have looked down at flag burning and protest actions from the middle-east? yet it's somehow a big party and an excusable behaviour when its americans doing it on american soil. that doesn't float... and it's so much worse when america are the one's meant to be setting an example to the entire world. what happens when the interventionist state starts acting and displays public behaviour like the 'failed states' it intervenes in?
that said, with 'humanism' in mind and whilst we can discuss something of an 'ideal'... yeah, perhaps less drunken college kids cheering in the streets. our side are the ones that are meant to be civilized, advanced, democratic and respectful of human rights. how many times have members of this forum posted links to islamic protests or street-movements in a disgusted and dismissive tone? how many of you have looked down at flag burning and protest actions from the middle-east? yet it's somehow a big party and an excusable behaviour when its americans doing it on american soil. that doesn't float... and it's so much worse when america are the one's meant to be setting an example to the entire world. what happens when the interventionist state starts acting and displays public behaviour like the 'failed states' it intervenes in?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I didn't really see it as much as people celebrating death as much as it was representative of an American victory. I mean yeah, there's that joy that he's dead... but it represented a victory for America. Much like the famous "sailor kissing nurse" photo from Times Square on V-J day. It's not like people were so much celebrating the death of thousands of Japanese civilians and soldiers, they were celebrating an American victory. That's what this was. It was celebrating the end of a figurehead of terror worldwide. It allows for a deep exhale.
I've said before that most of the people who were at the WTC site, at least from what I saw, were older. 25-30 range. The only reason so many college kids were at the WH is because GWU is literally blocks away.
Do you really think you'd ever see the American public celebrating the death of innocents over in Pakistan? Afghanistan? Libya? Of course not. We celebrated an American victory in the War on Terror and the demise of the biggest face of terror for over a decade. Would you really talk down to people if the Allies killed Hitler and people were dancing in the streets?
I've said before that most of the people who were at the WTC site, at least from what I saw, were older. 25-30 range. The only reason so many college kids were at the WH is because GWU is literally blocks away.
Do you really think you'd ever see the American public celebrating the death of innocents over in Pakistan? Afghanistan? Libya? Of course not. We celebrated an American victory in the War on Terror and the demise of the biggest face of terror for over a decade. Would you really talk down to people if the Allies killed Hitler and people were dancing in the streets?
in all fairness to the comparison, no one in the states masses for protests against the ME or its people calling for the deaths of all Muslims. Compared to the "death to Americans" banter displayed in the ME, along with beheading videos and charred American bodies hanging from bridges or dragged through the streets. I do not think it is fair to discuss them as the same things.Uzique wrote:
and like i said it's not 'ideological', i'm not being a contrarian little anti-american bitch. nor am i sympathizing with or deploring the death of a terrorist scumbag. i've even admitted earlier in this thread that the 'messy' and 'controversial' parts of this operation are, sadly and yet realistically, entirely predictable. it just wasn't going to be a textbook, perfectly-legal mission. it's osama bin laden. an exceptional case.
that said, with 'humanism' in mind and whilst we can discuss something of an 'ideal'... yeah, perhaps less drunken college kids cheering in the streets. our side are the ones that are meant to be civilized, advanced, democratic and respectful of human rights. how many times have members of this forum posted links to islamic protests or street-movements in a disgusted and dismissive tone? how many of you have looked down at flag burning and protest actions from the middle-east? yet it's somehow a big party and an excusable behaviour when its americans doing it on american soil. that doesn't float... and it's so much worse when america are the one's meant to be setting an example to the entire world. what happens when the interventionist state starts acting and displays public behaviour like the 'failed states' it intervenes in?
The economy bounced back rather quickly following the attacks. It resulted in a relative few people losing their jobs. Do you believe that the mobs of people taking to the streets today are the same people who lost their jobs in 2001? It's highly unlikely that most of them even knew people who did. And using your logic the assassination of a few politicians would be more cause for celebration, as they had a much bigger hand in bringing down the economy.lowing wrote:
I didn't say we are fucked economically still because of OBL, but certainly in the early days of post 9/11 terrorism put us on the mat, with the US scrambling as to how t orespond, how to make sure it doesn't happen again, and all of the bullshit that has transpired in security since. and yes, when one can not carry toothpaste on a plane now and has to get anally probed to board a flight, my comments on security have not been exaggerated.Kmar wrote:
The point is that they were separated from the situation. Personally I haven't thought about that bearded pole smoke in very very long time. It certainly didn't dominate my daily thoughts, like perhaps it does with those who have lost a friend or family member in the war or the attacks. The economic turmoil we endure now has very little to do with that man. It's a lending crisis at it's core. The idea that OBL has had this economy stuck in the mud and that it's not a result of our financial policies is ridiculous. As a fan of personal responsibility you should be able to see right through that and recognize it for what it is.. a scapegoat. That loss of a sense of security is also exaggerated. If one looks at the situation logically it's VERY easy to regain a sense of security. Then perhaps they won't be subject to kneejerk emotional whims that allow our politicians to manipulate policy. That's a far greater threat to our freedoms than Osama Bin Laden.lowing wrote:
9/11 was 10 years ago, not 4 generations ago. You can be impacted by OBL and his cronies by something more than a brick falling on your head. Our country has suffered economic turmoil over this, people have lost jobs over this. Our country has lost a sense of security and stability over this. We have been after this bastard for a decade, and have finally got him, it is completely understandable the reaction seen by this event.
Yea we got him. That's good. Am I calling in to work or skipping school? No. I'll be much more happier when, if ever, our soldiers come home. I do have connections to some of them http://is.gd/RsunhP .
You're right. You can't carry toothpaste on a plane without getting anally probed. No exaggeration at all there. Anyways, if you think said security procedures are actually necessary it's only then that it's not an overreaction. I don't think they are, and so the response is exaggerated.
Xbone Stormsurgezz