Then how can you make a statement about an under developed culture, that just needs time to catch up with the the rest of us if it is all "subjective"? oopsShahter wrote:
right there, man, you have just pointed the most important part - freedom is subjective. you can't really compare its levels between societies, because the very notion of it differs from one to another.lowing wrote:
Since when does freedom include not being surrounded by idiots? To them, yo may very well be the idiot. If you want that freedom, you are free to move to a deserted island.Shahter wrote:
how about freedom not to have manipulators, attention whores and outright idiots expressing themselves, their opinions, their faith, their descent and other shit around me? how about freedom not to be exploited and abused by those who accumulated move wealth that me? need more?lowing wrote:
Well lets see, since you need a road map. Free to express yourself, your opinions, your faith, your descent. Freedom to not be discriminated against by your govt. Need more?
no, you didn't. i absolutely shot down all your "points" and, as i said, no context could be constructed from that stuff.why should i address a simple statement of a fact? yes, you are cowering to those fears and you deserve it for your actions against muslims. if you want my opinion on the matter, you should stop worrying about the consequences of you actions and start revising the actions themselves.Look, I have made points that our nation is cowering to Islamic fears. You did not address that.not expressed or not reported? how many muslims did you talk to about this matter?I made points that Muslims are pissed about the treatment of Bin Laden and no such outrage was expressed about charred bodies hanging from a bridge.but he was NOT representative of islam - nobody is. he was NOT islamic in action - there no such thing as "islamic action".I made points about how if Bin Laden was NOT Islamic in action and not representative of Islam, why are Muslims so concerned about it.as a russian saying goes, don't blame the mirror if your face is ugly.Now, knock yourself out and try to do so with getting into the definition of "is".
My statements and question are a direct examination of the topic the "killing of Bin laden". The reaction of nations and people to this topic are relevant like it or not.Spark wrote:
fuck's sake couldn't the other three thousand threads on this suffice? there is plenty to talk about regarding this incident without devolving into this tired old bullshit.
ugh. fine then. not looking at this thread againlowing wrote:
My statements and question are a direct examination of the topic the "killing of Bin laden". The reaction of nations and people to this topic are relevant like it or not.Spark wrote:
fuck's sake couldn't the other three thousand threads on this suffice? there is plenty to talk about regarding this incident without devolving into this tired old bullshit.
because there are other indicators of a developed society than what you call "freedom".lowing wrote:
Then how can you make a statement about an under developed culture, that just needs time to catch up with the the rest of us if it is all "subjective"?
easy: islam is the dominant religion in those parts of the world which get fucked up the most because of your actions - hence the reaction.So we agree, our nation is cowering to fears from Islam....Now the question would be, what makes Islam so different that it should be feared?
wat?What actions do you refer?
not everybody your jedi killed, raped, sent to prison and left orphan was an extremist.Or did you mean action against extremists?
because you have better standarts of living, because you let them come and don't treat the muslims that live among you the way you treat them in those parts of the world which happen to be in the way of your so called "national interests".Cuz the west is "enjoying" a great immigration of Muslims. If we treat them so terrible then why flock to the west?
i'll tell you what: you can STOP taking what's reported for real thing. that's one of the things your awesome freedom is there for. instead talk to people you know and use your common sence.I, like all of you can only read and see what is reported. I am pretty sure if the Muslim community were outraged at the deaths of Americans and their treatment in death was a huge as was the outrage over, say cartoons, it would have been reported. As it is well, no such reports.
obl's actions had stuff to do with islam - he was well versed in it and used his knowledge as a tool for information manipulation - that's what religion is there for after all. but that's about it.Well we will just have to agree to disagree. If you think Bin Laden and hid actions have absolutely nothing to with Islam. We are really too far apart to discuss it. Besides, plenty of reports says you are wrong. Plenty of Islamic concern over bin laden also says you are wrong.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-05-06 08:27:56)
pot/kettle?Shahter wrote:
easy: islam is the dominant religion in those parts of the world which get fucked up the most because of your actions - hence the reaction.So we agree, our nation is cowering to fears from Islam....Now the question would be, what makes Islam so different that it should be feared?
what "pot/kettle"? i didn't call nobody black, i simply stated the fact.Shocking wrote:
pot/kettle?Shahter wrote:
easy: islam is the dominant religion in those parts of the world which get fucked up the most because of your actions - hence the reaction.So we agree, our nation is cowering to fears from Islam....Now the question would be, what makes Islam so different that it should be feared?
Last edited by Shocking (2011-05-06 08:36:04)
thanks, captain obvious, for this eye opening post. what does it have to do with anything we've been discussing here?Shocking wrote:
Well the russians haven't been very succesful in combatting muslim extremism either as far as I know, and when a terrorist attack happens you can't just sit by and wait for the next one.
Belgian Malinois, not German Shepard.Shocking wrote:
Always german shepherds. I wonder why though, I know they're naturally better at obedience training than 90% of the other breeds but that shouldn't matter that much if you pay a lot of attention to the dog. You could train any dog to be as obedient as a shepherd.
Their stamina perhaps?
1. really? like what? a free people, free non violent change of govt. control every 2 and 4 years? high quality of life, long life? What other indicators might you be referring to. Would really help if you would stop telling me I am wrong, and start supporting your arguments.Shahter wrote:
because there are other indicators of a developed society than what you call "freedom".lowing wrote:
Then how can you make a statement about an under developed culture, that just needs time to catch up with the the rest of us if it is all "subjective"?easy: islam is the dominant religion in those parts of the world which get fucked up the most because of your actions - hence the reaction.So we agree, our nation is cowering to fears from Islam....Now the question would be, what makes Islam so different that it should be feared?wat?What actions do you refer?not everybody your jedi killed, raped, sent to prison and left orphan was an extremist.Or did you mean action against extremists?because you have better standarts of living, because you let them come and don't treat the muslims that live among you the way you treat them in those parts of the world which happen to be in the way of your so called "national interests".Cuz the west is "enjoying" a great immigration of Muslims. If we treat them so terrible then why flock to the west?i'll tell you what: you can STOP taking what's reported for real thing. that's one of the things your awesome freedom is there for. instead talk to people you know and use your common sence.I, like all of you can only read and see what is reported. I am pretty sure if the Muslim community were outraged at the deaths of Americans and their treatment in death was a huge as was the outrage over, say cartoons, it would have been reported. As it is well, no such reports.obl's actions had stuff to do with islam - he was well versed in it and used his knowledge as a tool for information manipulation - that's what religion is there for after all. but that's about it.Well we will just have to agree to disagree. If you think Bin Laden and hid actions have absolutely nothing to with Islam. We are really too far apart to discuss it. Besides, plenty of reports says you are wrong. Plenty of Islamic concern over bin laden also says you are wrong.
Last edited by lowing (2011-05-06 09:46:39)
goodbye, spark.Spark wrote:
ugh. fine then. not looking at this thread againlowing wrote:
My statements and question are a direct examination of the topic the "killing of Bin laden". The reaction of nations and people to this topic are relevant like it or not.Spark wrote:
fuck's sake couldn't the other three thousand threads on this suffice? there is plenty to talk about regarding this incident without devolving into this tired old bullshit.
These are my favorite "debate" tactics: ------> I am right because you are stupid.Uzique wrote:
i literally want to start a fund to send lowing back to school
how much is kindergarten per term over there in the us?
Oh my bad, looked like one on the pictureFEOS wrote:
Belgian Malinois, not German Shepard.
Yeah. Looked like a Belgian in the picture.Shocking wrote:
Oh my bad, looked like one on the pictureFEOS wrote:
Belgian Malinois, not German Shepard.
1. ussr.lowing wrote:
1. really? like what? a free people, free non violent change of govt. control every 2 and 4 years? high quality of life, long life? What other indicators might you be referring to. Would really help if you would stop telling I am wrong, and start supporting your arguments.
2. Again I ask, what actions? We gave them a way to develop the sought after natural resource in the history of the planet then we let them charge us for it and hold it hostage over us...What actions are you referring.
3. see 2
4. and the extremists have killed more innocent people while the west tries to build and re-build schools, power plants, water works and communications infrastructures in these war torn countries. Is there collateral damage, absolutely, but we have not set out to harm or kill any innocent people. You get no such policy from the extremists.
5. ummmm you do know there was video of those displayed bodies and celebrations right? What do you do for your information on events on the other side of the world? fly there and report it for yourself? Just because you do not like the report does not mean it isn't true.
6. Well he was quite good at it wasn't he? So good, the most powerful nation on earth has cowered to Islam for fear of what can be done inits name.
1. not sure what kind of response "user" means, so point 1 is still on the table.Shahter wrote:
1. ussr.lowing wrote:
1. really? like what? a free people, free non violent change of govt. control every 2 and 4 years? high quality of life, long life? What other indicators might you be referring to. Would really help if you would stop telling I am wrong, and start supporting your arguments.
2. Again I ask, what actions? We gave them a way to develop the sought after natural resource in the history of the planet then we let them charge us for it and hold it hostage over us...What actions are you referring.
3. see 2
4. and the extremists have killed more innocent people while the west tries to build and re-build schools, power plants, water works and communications infrastructures in these war torn countries. Is there collateral damage, absolutely, but we have not set out to harm or kill any innocent people. You get no such policy from the extremists.
5. ummmm you do know there was video of those displayed bodies and celebrations right? What do you do for your information on events on the other side of the world? fly there and report it for yourself? Just because you do not like the report does not mean it isn't true.
6. Well he was quite good at it wasn't he? So good, the most powerful nation on earth has cowered to Islam for fear of what can be done inits name.
2. did you give them the ways to develop their resources for free? no? did they pay you back for the technology? no, scratch that, did you allow them to pay you back anyway? no? fuck off.
now, how exactly can their resources be held hostage against you?
do you have your own recourses? yes? why don't you start developing those and leave those people on the other side of the globe alone.
what actions? how about bombings? or assassinations of their leaders? how about continuous support for their enemies?
3. ...
4. oh, it's about numbers now. and intentions - you, aparrently, wanted to forcibly "elevate" them to your level. haven't you though that maybe they do not want to develop that way? or maybe they are not ready for that yet? who the fuck are you again to decide for other people?
5. i never said it wasn't true - there's simply no way for me to tell. and you know what i do when i don't know something but really interested? - i ask people who do know and who have no reason to lie to me. and that practially rules out any and all media.
6. yes, he was. and he said he did those horrible things in the name of islam. does that mean that islam itself is to blame?
Last edited by lowing (2011-05-06 10:17:49)
