Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.Macbeth wrote:
How in the holy fuck were they supposed to capture him? Keep sending in guys to tackle him/soak up 7.62's?Jenspm wrote:
Capture and trial would've been a better option I think.
And if that was deemed impossible and murder the only way out, I can accept that, but it should be done in a dignified way with 'mixed feelings' so to speak, rather than making it into some crazy celebratory patriotic revenge-orgy.
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
Norway has been supportive most of the way though, and have unsurprisingly released an exclusively positive press-release about what happened.burnzz wrote:
your conscious should be clear, Jenspm. i don't recall Norway being involved.Jenspm wrote:
I don't think we should've gone in to kill him
It's not surprising or necessarily bad, but we're all kind of in this together, even though the US are leading the way.
ugh13rin wrote:
What? You mean there aren't any Norwegian in SEAL team 6?burnzz wrote:
your conscious should be clear, Jenspm. i don't recall Norway being involved.Jenspm wrote:
I don't think we should've gone in to kill him
"We" on the other hand, have had our lives changed irrevocably by the actions of the group bin Laden founded - the way we fly, the way we visit our public buildings, and the way the relatives of 3000 people (plus 47,000 troops) remember the world before and after the eleventh of September, 2001.
"We" did not ask for this war, it was brought to us, and the death of this man will bring some closure, and hopefully a chance for this country to evaluate 'why', now that the raw emotions have been let out.
No, the US chose to pursue him. Motivations aside, always take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.13rin wrote:
He's wasted enough of American's time and $$.Jaekus wrote:
Kinda allows for more martyrism to come about that way.nukchebi0 wrote:
Honestly I would have preferred to have him captured, tried, convicted, and then hanged somewhere symbolic, but maybe swift and unceremoniously eliminating him is preferable to revisiting the trauma of the attacks. The desire for revenge, which the entire nation would be engulfed without on throughout the process of a public trial, is extremely unhealthy.
This way it was so quick it's kinda like "fuck, did it really happen?"
Domestically they are different. .. most Americans put more weight into domestic issues. Especially in this economy.Macbeth wrote:
Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.Macbeth wrote:
How in the holy fuck were they supposed to capture him? Keep sending in guys to tackle him/soak up 7.62's?
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
is that to do with politics or to do with presidential solidarity though?Macbeth wrote:
Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.Macbeth wrote:
How in the holy fuck were they supposed to capture him? Keep sending in guys to tackle him/soak up 7.62's?
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I know their foreign policies are very similar, but their rhetoric seems very different to me. That's at least the image I see from over here.Macbeth wrote:
Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.Macbeth wrote:
How in the holy fuck were they supposed to capture him? Keep sending in guys to tackle him/soak up 7.62's?
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
Ehhh. On social issues sure. On a lot things regarding the economy yeah. But it was also Bush who started the stimulus's and bailouts and his approach towards illegal immigration and school reform is the same. He also didn't care for budgets but that was in a different economy.Kmar wrote:
Domestically they are different. .. most Americans put more weight into domestic issues. Especially in this economy.Macbeth wrote:
Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
Bullshit. The US had no choice but to pursue him... I'd say the US has taken responsibility. Now the question is how will Pakistan own this?Jaekus wrote:
No, the US chose to pursue him. Motivations aside, always take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.13rin wrote:
He's wasted enough of American's time and $$.Jaekus wrote:
Kinda allows for more martyrism to come about that way.
This way it was so quick it's kinda like "fuck, did it really happen?"
@ jord... So there were Norwegians in SEAL team 6?
Yea, that's what I thought.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I wonder if the SEALs involved will be interviewed
inane little opines
doubt it .. sounds dangerous for them and their familiesShocking wrote:
I wonder if the SEALs involved will be interviewed
Xbone Stormsurgezz
meh, true
inane little opines
I didn't read through all the pages, but am I the only one who thinks that it's strange that the western world is in uproar when muslims celebrate when western soldiers are killed by islamists, yet it's perfectly normal that western people celebrate when an islamist is killed by western soldiers?
Will their identities even be revealed? I'm just thinking for the sake of personal safety and that.Shocking wrote:
I wonder if the SEALs involved will be interviewed
Both. Neocons are as close to democrats as they are paleoconservatives.Spark wrote:
is that to do with politics or to do with presidential solidarity though?Macbeth wrote:
Again you are showing how little you know of U.S. politics. Bush and Obama politcly aren't much different. Obama is mostly continuing his policies. Bush has also not said shit negative about Obama since he left the presidency. He has actually been supportive.Jenspm wrote:
See my second paragraph.
re: Bush, I'd kind of expect a "cut the head off the snake"-esque speech from him, but if you don't think so, fair enough. I did see his comments, but I'd expect they'd be different if he was in power rather than the 'opposition'.
Well that's bit of stretch but I think you get the point.
lol Pakistan. Now on TV some official of theirs stated this all happened because of pakistani intelligence cooperation with the CIA.
the man lived next to the Pakistani military academy in a recently built, giant house. No way he got there without their help.
the man lived next to the Pakistani military academy in a recently built, giant house. No way he got there without their help.
inane little opines
The US had a responsibility to pursue him. That does not alter the fact that the actions and decisions made are also their responsibility, derp.13rin wrote:
Bullshit. The US had no choice but to pursue him... I'd say the US has taken responsibility. Now the question is how will Pakistan own this?Jaekus wrote:
No, the US chose to pursue him. Motivations aside, always take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.13rin wrote:
He's wasted enough of American's time and $$.
Well put
Xbone Stormsurgezz
nah they celebrate mainly when uninvolved western civillians get killed.mr.hrundi wrote:
I didn't read through all the pages, but am I the only one who thinks that it's strange that the western world is in uproar when muslims celebrate when western soldiers are killed by islamists, yet it's perfectly normal that western people celebrate when an islamist is killed by western soldiers?
inane little opines
Echo, derp.Jaekus wrote:
The US had a responsibility to pursue him.13rin wrote:
Bullshit. The US had no choice but to pursue him... I'd say the US has taken responsibility. Now the question is how will Pakistan own this?Jaekus wrote:
No, the US chose to pursue him. Motivations aside, always take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.
Again, they have... derp.wrote:
That does not alter the fact that the actions and decisions made are also their responsibility, derp.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
You're a fucking idiot. I just told you, you disagreed and then you agree.13rin wrote:
Echo, derp.Jaekus wrote:
The US had a responsibility to pursue him.13rin wrote:
Bullshit. The US had no choice but to pursue him... I'd say the US has taken responsibility. Now the question is how will Pakistan own this?Again, they have... derp.wrote:
That does not alter the fact that the actions and decisions made are also their responsibility, derp.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-05-02 06:41:10)
Indeed.
The trial would honestly be a formality because the guilt is obvious. Having a trial would enable the US people to have a more satisfying conclusion (which, as stated earlier isn't necessarily healthy), and would allow the US itself to promote its own image as a bastion of liberty - if we give a trial to our most hated fugitive, one who we could easily have killed (as the raid shows), what dos that say about our commitment to our ideals? It's not entirely sincere, obviously, but nothing intended to improve a nation's perception ever is (as I'm sure a cursory glance at history will indicate.)13rin wrote:
He's wasted enough of American's time and $$.Jaekus wrote:
Kinda allows for more martyrism to come about that way.nukchebi0 wrote:
Honestly I would have preferred to have him captured, tried, convicted, and then hanged somewhere symbolic, but maybe swift and unceremoniously eliminating him is preferable to revisiting the trauma of the attacks. The desire for revenge, which the entire nation would be engulfed without on throughout the process of a public trial, is extremely unhealthy.
This way it was so quick it's kinda like "fuck, did it really happen?"
Why is it strange? Should we not be upset when our men and women die? Should they not be upset when theirs do? We aren't simply celebrating the death of an Islamist. We're happy that someone who shamelessly ordered the indiscriminate death of both our soldiers and civilians is no longer with us.mr.hrundi wrote:
I didn't read through all the pages, but am I the only one who thinks that it's strange that the western world is in uproar when muslims celebrate when western soldiers are killed by islamists, yet it's perfectly normal that western people celebrate when an islamist is killed by western soldiers?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
No shithead. Reread. God you're fucking stupid.Jaekus wrote:
You're a fucking idiot. I just told you, you disagreed and then you agree.13rin wrote:
Echo, derp.Jaekus wrote:
The US had a responsibility to pursue him.Again, they have... derp.wrote:
That does not alter the fact that the actions and decisions made are also their responsibility, derp.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.