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Topic closed

2011-04-02 10:37:15
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

mortars never bothered me.  I was out on patrol constantly so IED's were my big fear.  even when we would pull an OP for too long and start getting mortared, the fuckers were never zeroed
Right, but that's what I mean. If you got hit by one it was just shitty luck. At least in a firefight or with an IED you know the odds. Mortars made me uber-fatalistic after the six month mark.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 10:40:35
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5460|foggy bottom
I dont know about the IED's.  they were so many and just as if not more random.  We would clear a route of IEDs on a long patrol and coming back on the same route we would find them fuckers replaced within hours.
Tu Stultus Es
2011-04-02 10:41:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England
Thread dead yet?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 10:45:34
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6860|BC, Canada
If it dies, another will just pop up next week.
D&ST needs some [Official]Generic Argument threads.
2011-04-02 10:47:08
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+563|6915|Purplicious Wisconsin

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:


And what's the youngest ever recorded surviving premature baby?
21, 22 weeks? a full 2 months after "90%" of all abortions take place.
and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?
If stem-cell research had its way, that "blob" would go to those guys to develop cures, vaccines, DNA research, cancer research, so it wouldn't be a waste at all.
Isn't cloning a fetus involved in stem cell?
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2011-04-02 10:49:23
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England

War Man wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:


and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?
If stem-cell research had its way, that "blob" would go to those guys to develop cures, vaccines, DNA research, cancer research, so it wouldn't be a waste at all.
Isn't cloning a fetus involved in stem cell?
No fucktard.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 10:53:10
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

War Man wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:


and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?
If stem-cell research had its way, that "blob" would go to those guys to develop cures, vaccines, DNA research, cancer research, so it wouldn't be a waste at all.
Isn't cloning a fetus involved in stem cell?
Now that is a different issue, and I have no idea how I feel about it. My first instinct is to be against cloning or stem cell research, but the fact is, I do not have cancer nor am I fighting to save my kids life.
2011-04-02 10:53:36
Blue Herring
Member
+13|5005

War Man wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:


and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?
If stem-cell research had its way, that "blob" would go to those guys to develop cures, vaccines, DNA research, cancer research, so it wouldn't be a waste at all.
Isn't cloning a fetus involved in stem cell?
What?
2011-04-02 10:55:22
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6646|The Land of Scott Walker

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:


Why isn't it a rational argument. We have no problem testing bacteria, viruses, various cells from the human body, and other animals. What is so different? There's just a larger concentration of underdeveloped cells in the 1st trimester fetus.
For you to make that argument, you need to tell us when exactly, it is no longer a blob and a human being.
Well I can tell you when it isn't a human being, and that's the first trimester. If it has a good chance of survival out of the womb then it's on its way to become a human being.

Personally however I don't consider anyone a Human being until they develop emotions, that could take years, but that isn't relevant.
What's different is the genetic code, so the stage of development is irrelevant as is the ability to survive outside the womb.  The developing baby has a human genetic code unique to him/her as an individual which is much different than bacteria, virus, or cells of the mother. 

Good info here if think a baby is not human in the first trimester ...

http://www.pregnancy.org/fetaldevelopment
2011-04-02 11:45:23
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5237|Massachusetts, USA
I guess I'm looking to benefit humanity as a whole, instead of benefiting one future child. I don't want to see the fetus wasted after an abortion. I would like to see it go towards disease research. A lot can be learned from them, so why not utilize them.

Emotions have always gotten in the way of the future of mankind, that's what hinders research, people get emotional towards something. Why do you care so much about SOMEONE else's choice? If this so called "god" gave us free will, then don't women have a choice to get an abortion or not.



No one ever answered my question earlier, what if someone was raped and impregnated because of that. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
2011-04-02 11:52:39
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6671
"liberty consists in doing what one desires"
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2011-04-02 11:56:08
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5237|Massachusetts, USA

Uzique wrote:

"liberty consists in doing what one desires"
Didn't you know? The US wasn't founded on the premise of liberty.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
2011-04-02 11:56:14
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England

Uzique wrote:

"liberty consists in doing what one desires"
The second half of the philosophy being "As long as it's not at the expense of the liberty of others."

Which is why libertarians have always been, and will always be, split on the issue of abortion.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 11:58:53
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6671
sorry but a ball of cum and ovum does not constitute an 'other'.

surely a libertarian would be able to distinguish an 'other' as a rational, thinking, conscious human being.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-04-02 11:59:04)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2011-04-02 12:00:00
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5237|Massachusetts, USA

Uzique wrote:

sorry but a ball of cum and ovum does not constitute an 'other'.

surely a libertarian would be able to distinguish an 'other' as a rational, thinking, conscious human being.
Sadly, I wish that were the case.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
2011-04-02 12:04:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

UnkleRukus wrote:

I guess I'm looking to benefit humanity as a whole, instead of benefiting one future child. I don't want to see the fetus wasted after an abortion. I would like to see it go towards disease research. A lot can be learned from them, so why not utilize them.

Emotions have always gotten in the way of the future of mankind, that's what hinders research, people get emotional towards something. Why do you care so much about SOMEONE else's choice? If this so called "god" gave us free will, then don't women have a choice to get an abortion or not.



No one ever answered my question earlier, what if someone was raped and impregnated because of that. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?
That would be the woman's choice as far as I'm concerned.

You never answered my question... are you a father?
2011-04-02 12:07:45
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5237|Massachusetts, USA

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

I guess I'm looking to benefit humanity as a whole, instead of benefiting one future child. I don't want to see the fetus wasted after an abortion. I would like to see it go towards disease research. A lot can be learned from them, so why not utilize them.

Emotions have always gotten in the way of the future of mankind, that's what hinders research, people get emotional towards something. Why do you care so much about SOMEONE else's choice? If this so called "god" gave us free will, then don't women have a choice to get an abortion or not.



No one ever answered my question earlier, what if someone was raped and impregnated because of that. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?
That would be the woman's choice as far as I'm concerned.

You never answered my question... are you a father?
Why does it matter, but I'll humor you. if I were my emotions would get in the way of making a rational decision. End of discussion on that matter because after that answer its irrelevant.

I've answered yours, now answer mine

What if someone was raped and was impregnated because. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?

Why do you care so much about someone else's choice anyways?
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
2011-04-02 12:09:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England
It does though.

The way I see it is this...

It's not a question of it being a human being or not. That's a silly tack to take and is nothing more than a justification for the action. What it comes down to at the heart of it all is whether or not that zygote/embryo/fetus/whatever has the right to have a negative impact on its parents by being born. Some would say that the child is wholly innocent and others would say that if its life comes at the expense of the parents lives then it loses its innocence.

Other animals abandon their young (or eat them) if those young will hurt the pack. We frown upon humans who abandon their young so the next best thing is to allow an earlier 'out clause' or a 'do-over period' so it doesn't get to that point.

As I said earlier in this thread, I am pro-choice, but I am not in a position in my life where I could justify an abortion. I have the means to care for a child so it's my responsibility to do so. If I was at a different point in my life, a teenager perhaps, I would feel very differently.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 12:10:16
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England

Uzique wrote:

sorry but a ball of cum and ovum does not constitute an 'other'.

surely a libertarian would be able to distinguish an 'other' as a rational, thinking, conscious human being.
By that definition, a person in a coma, or a person suffering from alztheimer's  is no longer human.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-02 12:10:40)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 12:12:20
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5460|foggy bottom
you cant compare semen with alzheimers dude.
Tu Stultus Es
2011-04-02 12:37:00
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6852|USA

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

I guess I'm looking to benefit humanity as a whole, instead of benefiting one future child. I don't want to see the fetus wasted after an abortion. I would like to see it go towards disease research. A lot can be learned from them, so why not utilize them.

Emotions have always gotten in the way of the future of mankind, that's what hinders research, people get emotional towards something. Why do you care so much about SOMEONE else's choice? If this so called "god" gave us free will, then don't women have a choice to get an abortion or not.



No one ever answered my question earlier, what if someone was raped and impregnated because of that. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?
That would be the woman's choice as far as I'm concerned.

You never answered my question... are you a father?
Why does it matter, but I'll humor you. if I were my emotions would get in the way of making a rational decision. End of discussion on that matter because after that answer its irrelevant.

I've answered yours, now answer mine

What if someone was raped and was impregnated because. What then, keep the child that would have similar DNA from their father? Is it moral then to get an abortion?

Why do you care so much about someone else's choice anyways?
you are right, emotion does get in the way. SO why not call abortion what it actually is. Killing a baby. Then discuss the reasons after we agree on what it is that is being done. It is how we view the rationale for abortion that is in question, not the act itself. It is terminating a life. not really sure how that is debatable.

Already answered yours, I am pro choice. It is not my business what a woman does. Only she has to live with her decision. My only judgement comes for those that keep making the same mistakes and not learning from them. and use abortion as nothing more than birth control. When more responsible methods are proven and available.

Last edited by lowing (2011-04-02 12:38:42)

2011-04-02 12:41:59
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6671

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

sorry but a ball of cum and ovum does not constitute an 'other'.

surely a libertarian would be able to distinguish an 'other' as a rational, thinking, conscious human being.
By that definition, a person in a coma, or a person suffering from alztheimer's  is no longer human.
they have been, though. jesus christ stop being stupid.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2011-04-02 12:51:28
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5559|London, England

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

sorry but a ball of cum and ovum does not constitute an 'other'.

surely a libertarian would be able to distinguish an 'other' as a rational, thinking, conscious human being.
By that definition, a person in a coma, or a person suffering from alztheimer's  is no longer human.
they have been, though. jesus christ stop being stupid.
I'm not being stupid. I just think the whole 'they're not human' bit is a copout and a weak justification. There's no getting around the fact that if you have an abortion you are extinguishing human life. It's a fact. End stop. If you have an issue stomaching that, it's not my problem.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-02 12:57:55)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-04-02 12:58:16
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6671
'life' in the same sense that a sperm cell is 'alive'.

'life' in the sense of a 'human life', i.e. a conscious individual... no.

i'm extinguishing life when i take a shit and dump tons of bacteria out of my asshole

not shedding any tears
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2011-04-02 13:00:17
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6938|Oxferd Ohire
depending on how big the shit is you might
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png

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