Why are we involved in Libya?

2011-03-21 03:11:04

#126

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6556|'Murka

Kmar wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
The French started this?

The US is leading at present.
Yes, they launched the first wave.

It's a coalition. It makes sense for the most experienced (in recent history) force in the region to coordinate the operation.

Generally, the one put in charge is the one with the preponderance of forces and the means to command and control them. I think the latter criterion is the one that got it handed to the US in this case.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-21 03:29:56

#127

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|6955|Nårvei

Just hope the Arab League and African Union steps up to be a part of this, if they don't this can easily be "blamed as western opression" by extremists ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-03-21 03:31:49

#128

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

Varegg wrote:
this can easily be "blamed as western opression" by extremists ...

already is

let them kill themselves tbh

2011-03-21 04:08:28

#129

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6777|Finland

First people blame that the UN is utter shite, and never does anything. Now, when finally something concrete is done, people nag about UN involvement.

The fact that this is basically a UN-operation and not NATO or just U.S. means that basically the entire rest of the world is ok with it, even China, India and Russia, while they do oppose the actions right now, did not veto the resolution in all it's room for interpretation.

I need around tree fiddy.

2011-03-21 04:09:47

#130

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

DonFck wrote:
First people blame that the UN is utter shite, and never does anything. Now, when finally something concrete is done, people nag about UN involvement.

Un is shit and should not even be around.

2011-03-21 04:13:24

#131

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6820|Canberra, AUS

DonFck wrote:
First people blame that the UN is utter shite, and never does anything. Now, when finally something concrete is done, people nag about UN involvement.

The fact that this is basically a UN-operation and not NATO or just U.S. means that basically the entire rest of the world is ok with it, even China, India and Russia, while they do oppose the actions right now, did not veto the resolution in all it's room for interpretation.

I don't think India is particularly paying attention to anything at all right now

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-03-21 04:19:59

#132

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

china and russia could give a toss also. srsly don what are you on about?

2011-03-21 04:27:18

#133

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6777|Finland

11 Bravo wrote:
DonFck wrote:
First people blame that the UN is utter shite, and never does anything. Now, when finally something concrete is done, people nag about UN involvement.
Un is shit and should not even be around.

One could say the same thing about NATO. A remnant of the cold war. There's more of a point in the existence of the UN.

Spark wrote:
I don't think India is particularly paying attention to anything at all right now

11 Bravo wrote:
china and russia could give a toss also. srsly don what are you on about?

I'm talking about the UN security council, who came with the resolution. The members, you know? Who voted for, who against, who vetoed, who did what. The actions against Libya were voted on 10-0. Russia, India and China didn't vote at all, but are now speaking up that they're displeased with the current Coalition actions.

That's what I'm on about. That the operation has a green light, and IMHO it's justified in order to prevent a genocide, and at the same time why not taking down a dictator who has been doing whatever he pleases since 1969.

I need around tree fiddy.

2011-03-21 04:28:54

#134

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6556|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
Just hope the Arab League and African Union steps up to be a part of this, if they don't this can easily be "blamed as western opression" by extremists ...

AU's already a part of it...those nations are providing Daffy a lot of his mercs.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-21 04:30:10

#135

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

genocide? wtf. not even close. and you are assuming that would happen. its a civil war. its thier problem. this UN action is not right. i find it amazing just because the UN says so everything is cool then.

2011-03-21 04:33:18

#136

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6797|USA

UnkleRukus wrote:
lowing wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
more civs will die due to us "protecting them" then if we had just left it alone
Yeah especially when they pull the usual shit that happens in the ME sacrifice civilians fo4 headlines and propaganda against the west
If we stayed out of it then their arguments would be in vain. The media, no matter the nation or the region, will always try to spin/splice the truthful stories into some sort of fiction.

Unfortunately the practice of human shields in the ME isn't a work of fiction.

Would love to stay out of the ME, break our dependency on ME oil, and leave them behind in the 11th century.

2011-03-21 04:33:43

#137

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6556|'Murka

11 Bravo wrote:
genocide? wtf. not even close. and you are assuming that would happen. its a civil war. its thier problem. this UN action is not right. i find it amazing just because the UN says so everything is cool then.

Don't you realize that's how it works? If the UN says it's cool, it's cool. If the UN doesn't say it's cool, it's unjustified...regardless of the facts in either case.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-21 04:36:18

#138

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6820|Canberra, AUS

Curious as to why people are ragging on the UN so much. If a whole bunch of foreign ministers had got together and came up with the exact same thing instead, would that be any different? (No is the answer you're looking for)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-03-21 04:36:29

#139

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

FEOS wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
genocide? wtf. not even close. and you are assuming that would happen. its a civil war. its thier problem. this UN action is not right. i find it amazing just because the UN says so everything is cool then.
Don't you realize that's how it works? If the UN says it's cool, it's cool. If the UN doesn't say it's cool, it's unjustified...regardless of the facts in either case.

yes smart guy i know thats how it works. doesnt mean i have to agree or follow along.

2011-03-21 04:37:22

#140

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5383|Cleveland, Ohio

Spark wrote:
Curious as to why people are ragging on the UN so much. If a whole bunch of foreign ministers had got together and came up with the exact same thing instead, would that be any different? (No is the answer you're looking for)

im not. UN has always been a joke. i just lol at people who say "well the UN said its cool so its justified."

2011-03-21 04:39:36

#141

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6777|Finland

11 Bravo wrote:
genocide? wtf. not even close. and you are assuming that would happen. its a civil war. its thier problem. this UN action is not right. i find it amazing just because the UN says so everything is cool then.

There have been an amount of civil wars which have become something entirely different once the international community has become involved. It's a "crimes against humanity"-thing. Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Somalia etc.

You are correct, the justification is quite debatable. It depends really on the point of view. Justification to prevent genocide is what I said (Gadaffi would've surely executed every rebel in Libya). The international community's interpretation of the NFZ - too radical.

I need around tree fiddy.

2011-03-21 04:55:05

#142

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|6955|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Just hope the Arab League and African Union steps up to be a part of this, if they don't this can easily be "blamed as western opression" by extremists ...
AU's already a part of it...those nations are providing Daffy a lot of his mercs.

I have doubts that the AU are sanctioning the mercs hired by Daffy, it's a reason we call them mercs you know

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2011-03-21 04:59:42

#143

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6145|...

International community authorized 'defending civillians by any means necessary' and then complains when some NATO countries do just that. TBH I don't see why they feel they've got room to complain as none of them wanted to be involved in the action militarily. Initially they supported attacking ground targets such as tanks, artillery emplacements and the like, + I assume they know what a no fly zone actually is, but now suddenly none of them are happy anymore.

Let's not condemn Gadaffi for using human shields, it's your fault if you drop a bomb that kills one.

inane little opines

2011-03-21 05:07:47

#144

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6251|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Illogical connection, as the threat is different.

How is the threat different?

FEOS wrote:
No. I don't understand why the French decided to take out armor while enforcing a NFZ, except if the armor was attacking civilians. Of course, I don't see how they could know that, without troops on the ground to tell them that and provide terminal control on the specific armor that was doing the attacking. The ground attacks on armor seem out of bounds to me.

How are they more out of bounds than air defense systems remote from civilians?

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-03-21 05:27:05

#145

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5503|London, England

NeXuS wrote:
Shocking wrote:
I think most americans would have no objection to cutting the defense budget by at least 2%, tbh.
I say keep it as it is. If we didn't have such a massive military then we'd get run over. I'm just glad there are no ground troops over there. Sure launch a few missiles and help out but that's the most we should do.

Run over by whom? ze ruskies? Perhaps our hat will turn on us? Oh, I know, we need our military to defend our borders from an invasion from Mexico.

Have you actually put any thought into your opinion?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-03-21 05:34:38

#146

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6251|eXtreme to the maX

Nexus wrote:
Sure launch a few missiles and help out

Go back to your birth-planet, please.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-03-21 05:39:46

#147

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6820|Canberra, AUS

Jay wrote:
NeXuS wrote:
Shocking wrote:
I think most americans would have no objection to cutting the defense budget by at least 2%, tbh.
I say keep it as it is. If we didn't have such a massive military then we'd get run over. I'm just glad there are no ground troops over there. Sure launch a few missiles and help out but that's the most we should do.
Run over by whom? ze ruskies? Perhaps our hat will turn on us? Oh, I know, we need our military to defend our borders from an invasion from Mexico.

Have you actually put any thought into your opinion?

dude those canadian fisherman are fucking nasty

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-03-21 05:48:16

#148

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6862

Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:
NeXuS wrote:

I say keep it as it is. If we didn't have such a massive military then we'd get run over. I'm just glad there are no ground troops over there. Sure launch a few missiles and help out but that's the most we should do.
Run over by whom? ze ruskies? Perhaps our hat will turn on us? Oh, I know, we need our military to defend our borders from an invasion from Mexico.

Have you actually put any thought into your opinion?
dude those canadian fisherman are fucking nasty

North Korean invasion 2035.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2011-03-21 05:48:20

#149

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6251|eXtreme to the maX

Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:
NeXuS wrote:
I say keep it as it is. If we didn't have such a massive military then we'd get run over. I'm just glad there are no ground troops over there. Sure launch a few missiles and help out but that's the most we should do.
Run over by whom? ze ruskies? Perhaps our hat will turn on us? Oh, I know, we need our military to defend our borders from an invasion from Mexico.

Have you actually put any thought into your opinion?
dude those canadian fisherman are fucking nasty

Pretty sure the US military has killed more university students on US soil than they've killed foreign soldiers.

Edit: LOL Canada.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-03-21 05:48:38)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-03-21 06:18:52

#150

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6643

Dilbert_X wrote:
Pretty sure the US military has killed more university students on US soil than they've killed foreign soldiers.

can you cite sources to back this up?

BF2S Forums Why are we involved in Libya?

Kmar wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Varegg wrote:

DonFck wrote:

DonFck wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

DonFck wrote:

Spark wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Varegg wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

FEOS wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Spark wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Nexus wrote:

Jay wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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