The French just shot down a plane.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
The Frenchies are gonna clean house
I know fucking karate
Have they?-Sh1fty- wrote:
The French just shot down a plane.
I know they've shot several tanks....
The French seem very keen to get stuck in - possibly because they are the second biggest buyer of Libyan oil....BBC wrote:
1748: French aircraft have destroyed four Libyan tanks in air strikes to the south-west of Benghazi, Al-Jazeera television has reported.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2011-03-19 10:55:40)
source sh1fty?
I know fucking karate
Well, it was on the front page @ foxnews.com but they updated it with something else. I hate when they do that.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
I really don't understand what's going on here. After the Iraq invasion in '03 Libya stopped their weapons programs and started cooperating with the U.S. in anti-terror operations. Relations between them and the rest was beginning to warm. As far as oil goes, Gaddafi's sons already had good relations with western oil companies and the oil companies were confident that after the father died they would get nice deals from the sons.
I don't understand for the life of me why we are now doing this 'no fly zone' thing and what moral authority we have to do it. Sure he's a dick but at least we know we can work with him and his family and we don't know what we are going to get instead of him.
As far as ''protecting civilians''- it's a civil war. Considering the rebels are you know rebels what moral authority do we have to attack a sovereign who is attempting to put down a rebellion? Yeah sure he's bombing the shit out of them but every civil war France, the U.K., and the U.S. ever had was pretty bloody and if planes had existed back then we would have been bombing the shit out of our rebels and revolutionaries like Gaddafi is. Like I said Gaddafi is a dick but I don't see how he's in the wrong when it comes to dealing with the rebels.
So yeah could someone explain or better yet justify this whole 'no fly zone' to me? Because to me it seems like a huge fucking fail to me. O yeah and before someone says : U.N. resolution !!!111 The U.S. has veto power on the security council we could have blocked this if we wanted to so I'm holding it against Obama tbh.
I don't understand for the life of me why we are now doing this 'no fly zone' thing and what moral authority we have to do it. Sure he's a dick but at least we know we can work with him and his family and we don't know what we are going to get instead of him.
As far as ''protecting civilians''- it's a civil war. Considering the rebels are you know rebels what moral authority do we have to attack a sovereign who is attempting to put down a rebellion? Yeah sure he's bombing the shit out of them but every civil war France, the U.K., and the U.S. ever had was pretty bloody and if planes had existed back then we would have been bombing the shit out of our rebels and revolutionaries like Gaddafi is. Like I said Gaddafi is a dick but I don't see how he's in the wrong when it comes to dealing with the rebels.
So yeah could someone explain or better yet justify this whole 'no fly zone' to me? Because to me it seems like a huge fucking fail to me. O yeah and before someone says : U.N. resolution !!!111 The U.S. has veto power on the security council we could have blocked this if we wanted to so I'm holding it against Obama tbh.
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
The no-fly zone was chiefly imposed to prevent civilian casualties, of which there have been a lot of. Gaddafi doesn't really give a shit as to who is killed in the process of retaking territory.
It's a popular revolution. The people in Libya hate Gaddafi and have been inspired by the recent events in Tunisia and Egypt (the countries on either side of Libya) to try and do something about him. Gaddafi has been brutally putting down the rebellion, completely contravening international law with the methods he is using - thus the UN resolution giving carte blanche to stop him attacking civilians.Macbeth wrote:
I really don't understand what's going on here. After the Iraq invasion in '03 Libya stopped their weapons programs and started cooperating with the U.S. in anti-terror operations. Relations between them and the rest was beginning to warm. As far as oil goes, Gaddafi's sons already had good relations with western oil companies and the oil companies were confident that after the father died they would get nice deals from the sons.
I don't understand for the life of me why we are now doing this 'no fly zone' thing and what moral authority we have to do it. Sure he's a dick but at least we know we can work with him and his family and we don't know what we are going to get instead of him.
As far as ''protecting civilians''- it's a civil war. Considering the rebels are you know rebels what moral authority do we have to attack a sovereign who is attempting to put down a rebellion? Yeah sure he's bombing the shit out of them but every civil war France, the U.K., and the U.S. ever had was pretty bloody and if planes had existed back then we would have been bombing the shit out of our rebels and revolutionaries like Gaddafi is. Like I said Gaddafi is a dick but I don't see how he's in the wrong when it comes to dealing with the rebels.
So yeah could someone explain or better yet justify this whole 'no fly zone' to me? Because to me it seems like a huge fucking fail to me. O yeah and before someone says : U.N. resolution !!!111 The U.S. has veto power on the security council we could have blocked this if we wanted to so I'm holding it against Obama tbh.
Everyone hates Gaddafi, because he's a cunt. Therefore when he steps out of line, everyone is keen to fuck him over (including his Arab neighbours) - and good thing too I say.
and "rebels" do care, huh?M.O.A.B wrote:
The no-fly zone was chiefly imposed to prevent civilian casualties, of which there have been a lot of. Gaddafi doesn't really give a shit as to who is killed in the process of retaking territory.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Okay that's not nice (though it is debatable if his actions were justified after the rest of the Arab revolts) how does that negate the fact we are going to war with someone who was cooperating with us and was friendly to us?menzo wrote:
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
orly? when israelis are bombing civilians along with "terrorists" it's okay - but when gaddafi does the same it isn't, huh?menzo wrote:
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-03-19 11:38:37)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
i never siad i think that was okay, the US likes isreal more than the Libyan regime.Shahter wrote:
orly? when israelis are bombing civilians along with "terrorists" it's okay - but when gaddafi does the same it isn't, huh?menzo wrote:
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population (>>90%) are on their side....Shahter wrote:
and "rebels" do care, huh?M.O.A.B wrote:
The no-fly zone was chiefly imposed to prevent civilian casualties, of which there have been a lot of. Gaddafi doesn't really give a shit as to who is killed in the process of retaking territory.
Of course a big factor is that no one likes Gaddafi. If anyone on the UN security council did like him this wouldn't have happened.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2011-03-19 11:47:03)
and you asked every single one of those 90%+, right?Bertster7 wrote:
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population are on their side....Shahter wrote:
and "rebels" do care, huh?M.O.A.B wrote:
The no-fly zone was chiefly imposed to prevent civilian casualties, of which there have been a lot of. Gaddafi doesn't really give a shit as to who is killed in the process of retaking territory.
edit: k, i edited mine too.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-03-19 11:44:57)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Macbeth wrote:
Okay that's not nice (though it is debatable if his actions were justified after the rest of the Arab revolts) how does that negate the fact we are going to war with someone who was cooperating with us and was friendly to us?menzo wrote:
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
this makes me wonder, what if the rebels make it to Tripoli, and the rebels start shooting civs there. i think the UN/NATO will intervene in the same way as they are doing nowShahter wrote:
and you asked every single one, right?Bertster7 wrote:
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population are on their side....Shahter wrote:
and "rebels" do care, huh?
because he crossed the line, doesnt mater if we were cooperating with him.Macbeth wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Okay that's not nice (though it is debatable if his actions were justified after the rest of the Arab revolts) how does that negate the fact we are going to war with someone who was cooperating with us and was friendly to us?menzo wrote:
because he wasn't only bombing the rebels, but also civilians that were protesting peacefully.
Crossed what line?
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
no no no, of course not. rebel forces - as long as they do "the right thing" - always consist of jedi and fluffy bunnies only, they only shoot horrible dictators and their evil minions.menzo wrote:
this makes me wonder, what if the rebels make it to Tripoli, and the rebels start shooting civs there. i think the UN/NATO will intervene in the same way as they are doing nowShahter wrote:
and you asked every single one, right?Bertster7 wrote:
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population are on their side....
Last edited by Shahter (2011-03-19 11:49:45)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
bombing and killing civilians, who were totally peacefulMacbeth wrote:
Crossed what line?
I'm serious.
You look at the Twitter feeds from people in Tripoli - the people there hate him just as much, but Libyan secret police have a much stronger presence in Tripoli and so they are less outspoken.menzo wrote:
this makes me wonder, what if the rebels make it to Tripoli, and the rebels start shooting civs there. i think the UN/NATO will intervene in the same way as they are doing nowShahter wrote:
and you asked every single one, right?Bertster7 wrote:
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population are on their side....
You know Gaddafi's regime are monitoring all phone calls there? They are paying the phone companies so no one needs to top up their mobiles, so hey it's not all bad
the UN resolution doesn't say anything about regime change, only about protecting the populationShahter wrote:
no no no, of course not. rebel forces - as long as they do "the right thing" always consist of jedi and flussy bunnies only, they only shoot horrible dictators and their evil minions.menzo wrote:
this makes me wonder, what if the rebels make it to Tripoli, and the rebels start shooting civs there. i think the UN/NATO will intervene in the same way as they are doing nowShahter wrote:
and you asked every single one, right?
Have you seen anything from Libyans saying they support Gaddafi? Check twitter feeds and suchlike - they all hate him. Huge sections of his government are abandoning him, his military peronnel have been defecting and he is relying on foreign mercenaries.Shahter wrote:
and you asked every single one of those 90%+, right?Bertster7 wrote:
It's not a factor for the rebels, since all the civilian population are on their side....Shahter wrote:
and "rebels" do care, huh?
edit: k, i edited mine too.
Does he sound popular to you?
it's been quite some time since UN resolutions have only been taken into consideration when they'b been going along with... umm... certain "national interests".menzo wrote:
the UN resolution doesn't say anything about regime change, only about protecting the populationShahter wrote:
no no no, of course not. rebel forces - as long as they do "the right thing" always consist of jedi and flussy bunnies only, they only shoot horrible dictators and their evil minions.menzo wrote:
this makes me wonder, what if the rebels make it to Tripoli, and the rebels start shooting civs there. i think the UN/NATO will intervene in the same way as they are doing now
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.