BF2S Forums Man beheads wife because she wanted a divorce.

Shocking wrote:

lowing wrote:

Argument was his Islamic culture allows for this. That is a fact.

You asked for quotes from Islam that supported this behavior, they were provided, now you say it doesn't count?

Then the argument becomes some tribes in Afghanistan dos this shit as well, Irrelevant. Somehow I guess this is supposed to excuse Islamic cultures for doing it.

Islam is the problem child religion in the world today, not Christianity, or Hindus, or the fuckin Buddhists. Islam. That is also a fact.

There is simply no amount of redirection, denial, dismissal, or insults that is going to change any of those facts.

I wasn't the one who asked for those quotes, as I don't believe they're relevant to the discussion - there are as many interpretations of religious texts as there are followers of that particular religion.

Which is also why I feel your definition of "Islamic culture" is wrong, it's difficult to try and isolate a point of cultural unity among muslims - as they can disagree on what Islam's teachings supposedly are, and how to follow them.

Because, I assume, you're talking radical Islam, quoting this excerpt from Sharia law concerning divorce would suit the discussion;

Sharia wrote:

Divorce

The laws governing divorce vary substantially between sects, schools, states and cultures. The following outline is general in nature.

A marriage can be terminated by the husband in the talaq process, or by the wife seeking divorce through khul'. Under faskh a marriage may be annulled or terminated by the qadi judge.

Men have the right of unilateral divorce under classical Sharia. A Sunni Muslim divorce is effective when the man tells his wife that he is divorcing her, however a Shia divorce also requires four witnesses.[96] Upon divorce, the husband must pay the wife any delayed component of the dower. If a man divorces his wife in this manner three times, he may not re-marry her unless she first marries, and is subsequently divorced from, another man. Only then, and only if the divorce from the second husband is not intended as a means to re-marry her first husband, may the first husband and the woman re-marry.[Qur'an 2:230]

In practice, unilateral divorce is only common in a few areas of the Islamic world. It is much more common for divorces to be accomplished by mutual consent.[96]

If the wife asks for a divorce and the husband refuses, the wife has a right, under classical Sharia, to divorce by khul'. Although this right is not recognized everywhere in Islam, it is becoming more common. In this scenario, the qadi judge will effect the divorce for the wife, and she may be required to return part, or all, of her dowry.[96]

Under faskh, a qadi judge can end or annul a marriage.[96] Apostasy, on the part of the husband or wife, ends a Muslim marriage in this way. Hardship or suffering on the part of the wife in a marriage may also be remedied in this way. This procedure is also used to annul a marriage in which one of the parties has a serious disability.[97]

Except in the case of a khul' divorce initiated by a woman, the divorced wife generally keeps her dowry from when she was married. A divorced woman is given child support until the age of weaning. The mother is usually granted custody of the child.[98] If the couple has divorced fewer than three times (meaning it is not a final divorce) the wife also receives spousal support for three menstrual cycles after the divorce, until it can be determined whether she is pregnant. Even in a threefold divorce, a pregnant wife will be supported during the waiting period, and the child will be supported afterwards.[99]

Nowhere does it state that it's OK to kill or even behead your wife in the process of a divorce or after it. Sharia allows domestic violence, hell, even beating of women in case of "rebellion" but something like this is not condoned. So don't label it as if it were.

Yes, there are many glaring issues with radical Islamic culture, but even there you can't simply behead your wife and expect to get away with it.

oh and here their view on murder;

Sharia wrote:

Murder

Sharia law for murder allows the death penalty, but is kinder than western law in one respect - after judicial judgement has been made, appeals are then allowed to the family of the murdered victims, and they are begged to be merciful. In Islam, it is always regarded as the height of mercy to forgive a murderer, even though one may have the right to take his/her life in reprisal.

The form of execution is not specified in Islam - i.e. it is not usually a stoning. Beheading used to be regarded as the quickest and most merciful way (as in Roman law, and the French guillotine); these days other methods may find approval. There are apparently far fewer executions in most Muslim countries than in the USA, for example. The penalty for adultery is open to debate. Most scholars will insist that the penalty as laid down in the Qur'an was 100 lashes, and there were various rules for regulating how lashes were to be given too. Other scholars maintain that the old penalty for adultery as laid down by the previous prophets was stoning (as in the Old Testament). By New Testament times, the prophet Jesus had the famous case where a guilty woman was forgiven and sent away, told only to sin no more.

In some Muslim societies, judges and populaces might stone out of mistaken belief that this was what Islam required. In fact, Islam made it virtually impossible - to be sentenced to death for adultery, the couple had to be actually witnessed performing the physical act by four people who were in a position to identify both parties without doubt; this virtually ruled out the penalty, since adultery is taken for granted as a secret act and something not done in public.

So yeah, some islamic cultures are fucked up because sharia is, but come on, it's a ridiculous claim to say that beheading your wife is condoned.

Varegg wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Varegg wrote:

According to lowing chain of thought you do ... one tolerates the actions of ones friends and Saudi is your friend ...

no...thats just stupid and you being an ass about it.  its accepted in the majortiy of islamic cultures.  not sure how anyone can argue that.

It's actually not accepted by the majority of Islam, it's accepted by a very few ... and those few are the ones you constantly hear about, you simply can't judge the masses for the actions of the few ... how is that being an ass about it?

Varegg wrote:

I'm not arguing against the content on that website lowing, honorkillings do excist and nobody in this thread doubts that ... the difference is that you use that hatesite as proof that all of Islam supports honorkillings when they don't ...

A website that contains both sides of an issue giving a broader picture is usually a better source ...

And I would really want you to comment on the fact that the website is written by an ex-Muslim and not a Muslim like you pointed out ... seems like you have a habbit of confusing fact and fiction ...

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-11 18:08:06)

lowing wrote:

You don't think anyone can deny Islamic nations are a problem and Islam is connected to that problem? that is all anyone on this forum does is deny that. Deny it, dismiss it, redirect away from talking about it. Calls anyone who does a racist, a bigot, stupid biased or ignorant.


I will complain about it, and I have no solution for it. After 5000 years, who does? I just want it to stay the fuck away from the society I live in.

I didn't demonize Islam by talking about it. Islam did that all on its own by actions it condones, and culture it adopts.

Last edited by Shocking (2011-03-11 12:47:59)

Shocking wrote:

lowing wrote:

You don't think anyone can deny Islamic nations are a problem and Islam is connected to that problem? that is all anyone on this forum does is deny that. Deny it, dismiss it, redirect away from talking about it. Calls anyone who does a racist, a bigot, stupid biased or ignorant.


I will complain about it, and I have no solution for it. After 5000 years, who does? I just want it to stay the fuck away from the society I live in.

I didn't demonize Islam by talking about it. Islam did that all on its own by actions it condones, and culture it adopts.

Logically - no, you can't. Is it because of them being wholly unreasonable or your stance, though? Using a wide brush and labelling "islamic culture" entirely as being dangerous is simply going to give you lots of wild responses. It's true that radical Islamic cultures exist today and are dangerous today, yet not explicitly stating that you are talking about that particular set of Islamic values is going to get many confused and some annoyed.  It's also important to note that the religion itself is responsible for only part of the problem. Not doing this makes it appear as though your stance is extremist on the other end of the spectrum. Annoying, I know, but with sensitive subjects it's best to try and be as clear as possible.

Besides, I don't think this was the best or most accurate example to try and attack the Islamic cultures in question, but anyway that's a bit besides the point now as we're not discussing the incident anymore.

How are you going to make it stay away without worsening the situation though? Come on, you have got to have put some thought into that because, evidently, it's a big concern to you, too (and all of us). But; extremist stances are going to sollicit extremist responses, and I think you're well aware of that.

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-11 13:45:56)

lowing wrote:

No, the problem is I am not politically correct. Islam is a problem in a world entertaining societies that have reached new levels of morality, tolerance, and equality. Islam is a step backwards, not a step forwards in that progress. Sorry if this forum determines I am a racist, bigot, stupid ignorant, war monger or Nazi because I take Islam and those that practice it for their word when they say what they want to do to my country or to Israel.. Sorry if I look at what they do to each other and determine it is more than a "few" that is a problem.

Not sure how recognizing and acknowledging extreme cultures and religions makes me an extremists, that would be for you explain and not me.

You take me far too seriously. Contrary to popular belief or how I am portrayed in this forum, I did not plant mines in my front yard, nor am I stringing up trip wire.

Last edited by Shocking (2011-03-11 14:02:00)