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2011-03-09 18:57:04
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6797|Long Island, New York

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:

THat was not my argument, that was a side comment in response to something else said.

I do not think this is a sign of Islamic intrusion. It is nothing more than another example as to how and why Islam is one fucked up way of life. If you wanna say I am turning it into Islamic Armageddon in lieu of a real argument,  I can't help that.
Because one guy who just happens to kill his wife over an impending divorce is a Muslim, that's your reasoning as to why people who are Muslim lead fucked up ways of life?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he … r-12478370

What about this guy, huh? He's probably in some denomination of Christianity. Is Christianity one fucked up way of life too, even though there are plenty of violent verses in the Bible as well?

I'd love to see a poll made: Who leads a more fucked up life? The Muslim store owner who prays 5 times a day and wears a turban, or the middle aged man who lives far off into the mountains, secluded from society who also buys a shitload of guns to protect himself due to his paranoia?
Our society does not condone this behavior.... Islamic culture does.hence the difference.
And this guy grew up in America in a westernized culture, not in Afghanistan or Pakistan. So what's your point? This had nothing to do with Islam, and there is nothing in the article you posted to prove to the contrary.

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

I think the US guy did it for money and not "honor"
And where in the article does it say that the perp did it because his religion told him to?

It doesn't. He is a murderer who just happens to be Muslim. Nothing more.
and happens to be accepted behavior in his Islamic culture..
Why, because a few very selective cases throughout the 2 billion Muslims in the world? Those are indicative of how "Islamic culture" is? What of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by the Serbian Orthodox Christian Slobodan Milosevic? In a "Christian" culture? Guess that just slipped your mind.
2011-03-09 18:57:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

FEOS wrote:

lowing wrote:

FEOS wrote:


One of the four was born in England. One was born in Jamaica. Two were born in Pakistan.
Citizens of England right? Far from that culture right? Well again, so much for the notion that it has everything to do with their surroundings and nothing to do with their beliefs.
The problem is you are confusing--in this case--culture and religion. G@lt pointed it out pretty clearly. While there are cultural aspects to Islam, the "honor killing" phenomenon is more isolated to a tribal culture in South Asia than it is tied to the religion of Islam. And it would be there, regardless of what religion those tribal members were practicing--because it is ingrained in their culture, and has been for centuries. Long before Islam even existed.
and I already posted, quite clearly examples where it is an Islamic culture thing as well, and not just some tribe buried in the mountains of Afghanistan. Gave Islamic references when asked as well. of course they were ignored.
2011-03-09 18:58:40
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:


Because one guy who just happens to kill his wife over an impending divorce is a Muslim, that's your reasoning as to why people who are Muslim lead fucked up ways of life?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he … r-12478370

What about this guy, huh? He's probably in some denomination of Christianity. Is Christianity one fucked up way of life too, even though there are plenty of violent verses in the Bible as well?

I'd love to see a poll made: Who leads a more fucked up life? The Muslim store owner who prays 5 times a day and wears a turban, or the middle aged man who lives far off into the mountains, secluded from society who also buys a shitload of guns to protect himself due to his paranoia?
Our society does not condone this behavior.... Islamic culture does.hence the difference.
And this guy grew up in America in a westernized culture, not in Afghanistan or Pakistan. So what's your point? This had nothing to do with Islam, and there is nothing in the article you posted to prove to the contrary.

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

And where in the article does it say that the perp did it because his religion told him to?

It doesn't. He is a murderer who just happens to be Muslim. Nothing more.
and happens to be accepted behavior in his Islamic culture..
Why, because a few very selective cases throughout the 2 billion Muslims in the world? Those are indicative of how "Islamic culture" is? What of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by the Serbian Orthodox Christian Slobodan Milosevic? In a "Christian" culture? Guess that just slipped your mind.
Always love the "its only a few" argument, so tell me when in your eyes do all of these "few" incidences start to make a pattern for you?

and how could we all guess Middle East before reading the article? Just a lucky guess right?

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-09 18:59:31)

2011-03-09 19:00:36
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6670|'Murka

lowing wrote:

FEOS wrote:

lowing wrote:


Citizens of England right? Far from that culture right? Well again, so much for the notion that it has everything to do with their surroundings and nothing to do with their beliefs.
The problem is you are confusing--in this case--culture and religion. G@lt pointed it out pretty clearly. While there are cultural aspects to Islam, the "honor killing" phenomenon is more isolated to a tribal culture in South Asia than it is tied to the religion of Islam. And it would be there, regardless of what religion those tribal members were practicing--because it is ingrained in their culture, and has been for centuries. Long before Islam even existed.
and I already posted, quite clearly examples where it is an Islamic culture thing as well, and not just some tribe buried in the mountains of Afghanistan. Gave Islamic references when asked as well. of course they were ignored.
No, they weren't ignored. They didn't--not a single one of them--provide justification for beheading your wife. Not a single one, lowing. Certainly not the Qur'anic passages. There might be fatwas from nutjobs that other nutjobs think justify it...but nothing you provided from the Qur'an does.

All the evidence points to this guy being a loon. He would be a loon regardless of his religious affiliation. Has nothing to do with it. Nothing.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2011-03-09 19:00:44
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6389|North Tonawanda, NY
So lowing, you correlate honor killings with Islam, right? 

That does not mean there is a causative effect there?  Correlation does not mean causation.
2011-03-09 19:02:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5617|London, England

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:


THat was not my argument, that was a side comment in response to something else said.

I do not think this is a sign of Islamic intrusion. It is nothing more than another example as to how and why Islam is one fucked up way of life. If you wanna say I am turning it into Islamic Armageddon in lieu of a real argument,  I can't help that.
Because one guy who just happens to kill his wife over an impending divorce is a Muslim, that's your reasoning as to why people who are Muslim lead fucked up ways of life?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he … r-12478370

What about this guy, huh? He's probably in some denomination of Christianity. Is Christianity one fucked up way of life too, even though there are plenty of violent verses in the Bible as well?

I'd love to see a poll made: Who leads a more fucked up life? The Muslim store owner who prays 5 times a day and wears a turban, or the middle aged man who lives far off into the mountains, secluded from society who also buys a shitload of guns to protect himself due to his paranoia?
Our society does not condone this behavior.... Islamic culture does.hence the difference.
Pashtun culture.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-09 19:03:06
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6797|Long Island, New York

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Because one guy who just happens to kill his wife over an impending divorce is a Muslim, that's your reasoning as to why people who are Muslim lead fucked up ways of life?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he … r-12478370

What about this guy, huh? He's probably in some denomination of Christianity. Is Christianity one fucked up way of life too, even though there are plenty of violent verses in the Bible as well?

I'd love to see a poll made: Who leads a more fucked up life? The Muslim store owner who prays 5 times a day and wears a turban, or the middle aged man who lives far off into the mountains, secluded from society who also buys a shitload of guns to protect himself due to his paranoia?
Our society does not condone this behavior.... Islamic culture does.hence the difference.
And this guy grew up in America in a westernized culture, not in Afghanistan or Pakistan. So what's your point? This had nothing to do with Islam, and there is nothing in the article you posted to prove to the contrary.

lowing wrote:


and happens to be accepted behavior in his Islamic culture..
Why, because a few very selective cases throughout the 2 billion Muslims in the world? Those are indicative of how "Islamic culture" is? What of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by the Serbian Orthodox Christian Slobodan Milosevic? In a "Christian" culture? Guess that just slipped your mind.
Always love the "its only a few" argument, so tell me when in your eyes do all of these "few" incidences start to make a pattern for you?

and how could we all guess Middle East before reading the article? Just a lucky guess right?
When it happens on a scale of people that's more than .001% of the followers of said religion. If it's even that.

I hope you guys realize that as much as we're all proving him wrong, he's never going to cave on this. Ever.
2011-03-09 22:14:31
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6934|Canberra, AUS
It doesn't exactly help when Ottofuckingmania reappears during the middle of these debates...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2011-03-10 02:42:48
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

Always love the "its only a few" argument, so tell me when in your eyes do all of these "few" incidences start to make a pattern for you?

and how could we all guess Middle East before reading the article? Just a lucky guess right?
There's a lot in the bible which requires people to be stoned to death for various reasons, adultery for example.

Give us the figures for murder rates by religion and you might have a case. I bet drunk rednecks of no particular denomination, or African-Americans have higher murder rates

Otherwise you're just wound up about Islam for no reason, again.
Fuck Israel
2011-03-10 02:51:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX
Goddamit these Catholics must be eradicated.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/200 … hn-tabbutt
It was about 2:30 Friday morning, and John Tabbutt thought he heard an intruder.

He got his .38-caliber revolver, saw a figure in the hallway and fired a shot.

But the person he shot was no intruder. It was Nancy Dinsmore, his live-in fiance, the woman he was to marry today.

That is what Tabbutt told Winter Springs police Friday: He shot and killed the woman he loved by accident.

Dinsmore died on the hallway floor from a single gunshot wound to the chest, Winter Springs police Chief Kevin Brunelle said.

There is no reason to think Tabbutt meant to kill Dinsmore, Brunelle said. The groom-to-be was "very, very distraught," Brunelle said. Still, police will continue their investigation, the chief said.

Dinsmore and Tabbutt, both 62, were to be married today at St. Stephen Catholic church in Winter Springs. It was to be a small ceremony with family and some friends, said Dinsmore's son-in-law, Scott Sposato, 39, of Vero Beach.
Some friends = Beelzebub and all his little demons.

"They loved each other," he said. "It was quite apparent."

In a Thursday-night posting on her page on Facebook, a social-networking Internet site, Dinsmore wrote about her upcoming nuptials: "2 days and counting ... all is going well ... the roses for my table arrangements came in and the color is perrrrrrrrrrfect. ... weather ... 95 degrees ... and sunny for the wedding. thank heavens for air conditioning ..."
They're on facebook, that clinches it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-03-10 02:54:20)

Fuck Israel
2011-03-10 05:50:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

FEOS wrote:

lowing wrote:

FEOS wrote:


The problem is you are confusing--in this case--culture and religion. G@lt pointed it out pretty clearly. While there are cultural aspects to Islam, the "honor killing" phenomenon is more isolated to a tribal culture in South Asia than it is tied to the religion of Islam. And it would be there, regardless of what religion those tribal members were practicing--because it is ingrained in their culture, and has been for centuries. Long before Islam even existed.
and I already posted, quite clearly examples where it is an Islamic culture thing as well, and not just some tribe buried in the mountains of Afghanistan. Gave Islamic references when asked as well. of course they were ignored.
No, they weren't ignored. They didn't--not a single one of them--provide justification for beheading your wife. Not a single one, lowing. Certainly not the Qur'anic passages. There might be fatwas from nutjobs that other nutjobs think justify it...but nothing you provided from the Qur'an does.

All the evidence points to this guy being a loon. He would be a loon regardless of his religious affiliation. Has nothing to do with it. Nothing.
Except that his behavior would not be news in an Islamic culture.
2011-03-10 05:53:31
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Because one guy who just happens to kill his wife over an impending divorce is a Muslim, that's your reasoning as to why people who are Muslim lead fucked up ways of life?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he … r-12478370

What about this guy, huh? He's probably in some denomination of Christianity. Is Christianity one fucked up way of life too, even though there are plenty of violent verses in the Bible as well?

I'd love to see a poll made: Who leads a more fucked up life? The Muslim store owner who prays 5 times a day and wears a turban, or the middle aged man who lives far off into the mountains, secluded from society who also buys a shitload of guns to protect himself due to his paranoia?
Our society does not condone this behavior.... Islamic culture does.hence the difference.
And this guy grew up in America in a westernized culture, not in Afghanistan or Pakistan. So what's your point? This had nothing to do with Islam, and there is nothing in the article you posted to prove to the contrary.


Why, because a few very selective cases throughout the 2 billion Muslims in the world? Those are indicative of how "Islamic culture" is? What of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by the Serbian Orthodox Christian Slobodan Milosevic? In a "Christian" culture? Guess that just slipped your mind.
Always love the "its only a few" argument, so tell me when in your eyes do all of these "few" incidences start to make a pattern for you?

and how could we all guess Middle East before reading the article? Just a lucky guess right?
When it happens on a scale of people that's more than .001% of the followers of said religion. If it's even that.

I hope you guys realize that as much as we're all proving him wrong, he's never going to cave on this. Ever.
proved me wrong? The thing is, regardless of all of your mis directions, the fact is, this shit is accepted in Islamic cultures.
2011-03-10 05:55:09
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6934|Canberra, AUS
there are a lot more honor killings in india iirc.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2011-03-10 05:59:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Spark wrote:

there are a lot more honor killings in india iirc.
Great when Hindus start blowing up airplanes and trains, ships and markets full of women and children, let me know and I will care.
2011-03-10 06:02:27
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6918|BC, Canada

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

there are a lot more honor killings in india iirc.
Great when Hindus start blowing up airplanes and trains, ships and markets full of women and children, let me know and I will care.
So... you only care if a man beheads his wife if he follows Islam?
2011-03-10 06:16:50
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Nic wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

there are a lot more honor killings in india iirc.
Great when Hindus start blowing up airplanes and trains, ships and markets full of women and children, let me know and I will care.
So... you only care if a man beheads his wife if he follows Islam?
As I said, the argument is how Islamic culture condones this behavior. THis board is full of Islamic apologists that want to argue Islam is so peaceful and serene and that only a" few " are bad, when all evidence points to Islamic culture being anything but peaceful tolerant and serene. This example is merely one of countless that prove that.
2011-03-10 06:42:50
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7069|Nårvei

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2011-03-10 06:45:12
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
2011-03-10 06:47:36
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6918|BC, Canada

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
But you tolerate it if its not an islamic person doing it.
2011-03-10 06:49:21
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7069|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
Do they now?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2011-03-10 06:53:54
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
Do they now?
well he is right.  this story would not even be a story over there.  wonder if it was even on al jaz.
2011-03-10 06:54:46
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
Do they now?
lol no I made it up, we all did, just to smear Islam's reputation of peace tolerance and serenity
2011-03-10 06:54:52
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5617|London, England

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

How about all the Muslims that doesn't behead their wives, what does that prove?
How about entire Pashtun cultures that tolerate it?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-10 06:56:59
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7069|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:


How about entire Islamic cultures that tolerate it?
Do they now?
lol no I made it up, we all did, just to smear Islam's reputation of peace tolerance and serenity
Finally you admit you're wrong ... what a day
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2011-03-10 07:01:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:


Do they now?
lol no I made it up, we all did, just to smear Islam's reputation of peace tolerance and serenity
Finally you admit you're wrong ... what a day
Yup feel better? So, when do move to Syria, Pakistan and Saudi to partake in the peace, tolerance, equality freedom and serenity?

 

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