BF2S Forums Florida Governor Derails Obama's plan for High Speed Rail

Spearhead wrote:

I went to Disney world yesterday from my home in St. Pete.  The I-4 corridor was a fuckin parking lot in some places.  Our governer is a jackass.

Well, thats what happens when you elect a corporate criminal who made his money off screwing the government to run a state.  God help us all.  Three more years of this wacko.

ps - I also went to college in Pensacola for 2 years.  Ya that place is crazy... even got to drink some genuine moonshine!  South florida is practically different state.

So you're cool with your tax dollars subsidizing the rail-fare of tourists for the rest of your life?

Tax dollars subsidize a lot of other things as you know.  Football, baseball, etc.  Not to mention highways, which have never and will never actually "pay" for themselves.  I understand the concern but at the same time I feel like it would generate more for the economy than it would cost the state.

All the schools here have field trips to Orlando for theme parks and everyone I know goes there frequently.  Also, I know that if there was high speed rail available I would probably go much more than I currently do.  this is one of those things, where I can see with my own eyes and personal experience, how it would benefit the area.  I don't support government subsizidized rail everywhere, but I am a very strong supporter of this specific plan.

Last edited by Spearhead (2011-03-06 11:41:06)

Spearhead wrote:

Tax dollars subsidize a lot of other things as you know.  Football, baseball, etc.  Not to mention highways, which have never and will never actually "pay" for themselves.  I understand the concern but at the same time I feel like it would generate more for the economy than it would cost the state.

All the schools here have field trips to Orlando for theme parks and everyone I know goes there frequently.  Also, I know that if there was high speed rail available I would probably go much more than I currently do.  this is one of those things, where I can see with my own eyes and personal experience, how it would benefit the area.  I don't support government subsizidized rail everywhere, but I am a very strong supporter of this specific plan.

Highways most certainly do pay for themselves. Not directly via tolls, but they allow businesses to transport goods. If they couldn't transport goods, they wouldn't be able to sell anything. If they can't sell anything, no sales or income tax is collected.

That train, however, will never make anyone a profit except Disney. They might as well just build an international airport (at taxpayer expense) right at the entrance of Disney World. Instead of your state collecting money from tourists, it would all go directly into Disney's pocket. But we're not talking about an airport, we're talking about a train. A train which requires annual maintenance, requires annual payments to unionized rail employees (because railroads are exempt from Right to Work laws) etc. Who pays that? The Feds? Good luck. No, it will be you, the taxpayer in Florida (lol at Floridian taxation) who will pay for it every year. A train designed to do nothing but expedite tourists from Tampa airport to Disney World. But since the train will never run at a profit, it will require annual subsidies from you. You'll essentially be handing a few dollars to every tourist that flies into Tampa without receiving any benefit whatsoever.

But cool, come on a gaming forum, expose your economic stupidity, and whine that your governor sucks. Thanks for stopping by.


Edit - oh, and make sure you vote for Obama again.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-06 11:53:31)

Spearhead wrote:

Okay, whatever dude.  I know the argument, I've heard it a thousand times before.  You don't have to be a dick about it.  This is why I never post here.

Have you read ANYTHING about our governer?  About how the FBI and IRS raided his fucking office when he was working in the healthcare industry because he was committing medicaid fraud?  I do not base my opinions of politicians off of a single issue or cause, this guy is seriously a criminal. 

That being said, I have a lot of respect for a lot of people here, Kmar being one of them, even though I dont always agree with them.  But the toxicity in this forum is unbearable.  I responded to your post with my opinion and you responded with insults.  I guess there's nothing else to say.

I really don't care if your governor was friends with Pol Pot and worships at the altar of Stalin. On this issue he's correct.

I insulted you because you insulted the intelligence of this forum with stupid comments "highways never make any money derp derp derp". Please. If you're ignorant, keep your mouth shut.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-06 12:07:06)

I feel like its more of a political stunt than it actually has to do with the economy.  Maybe if you had heard the overwhelming local bipartisan support (or the Republican majority Florida Senate), not just from libs but from business leaders as well, you would think differently.

Last edited by Spearhead (2011-03-06 12:16:01)

Spearhead wrote:

I feel like its more of a political stunt than it actually has to do with the economy.  Maybe if you had heard the overwhelming local bipartisan support, not just from libs but from business leaders as well, you would think differently.

I could find local business leaders that would support a bill that says 1/4 of the population will be killed and their resources distributed out to the survivors too. Of course they would all be undertakers and bar owners but hey, they're winners, and they're willing to support my bill.

Also, I don't care if republicans support it. They're just as fiscally retarded as democrats.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-06 12:19:49)

Spearhead wrote:

I went to Disney world yesterday from my home in St. Pete.  The I-4 corridor was a fuckin parking lot in some places.  Our governer is a jackass.

Well, thats what happens when you elect a corporate criminal who made his money off screwing the government to run a state.  God help us all.  Three more years of this wacko.

ps - I also went to college in Pensacola for 2 years.  Ya that place is crazy... even got to drink some genuine moonshine!  :) South florida is practically different state.

If I thought that it was going to be used and be sustainable I would reconsider my position. I was actually on the fence with this until I saw the math and the politicians doing their typical "the private sector will pick up the extra cost", without having any concrete plan for them to do so. Most people aren't going to want to take a cab or a bus to the train station and rent a car in orlando/tampa. The reason the I-4 corridor is so backed up is because of commuters. Yes some parts are really bad, but I can still get to Orlando, about 100 miles away, in about an hour. Do you think you are going to save time by going to a train station, and basically have to hail a cab, rent a car, or catch a bus once you reach your destination? Tampa can barely keep it's in town trolley afloat and it cost less than $1 to ride. Simply put, people like their cars. .. and if rapid rises in fuel cost can't change their habits a rail line and the inconveniences that come with it sure as hell isn't.

Sure this is getting some bipartisan support. It's because the politicians want to get credit for the temporary jobs it will bring in while they are in office. Politicians have always capitalized on the illusion of free money.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Sounds like your state needs to update its infrastructure for automobiles. I don't know the Florida roads, but I'm guessing a lot of highway traffic is due to bottlenecked onramps/offramps.

It's like that around every major urban center. Have you ever driven through Atlanta?

Spearhead wrote:

Have you read ANYTHING about our governer?  About how the FBI and IRS raided his fucking office when he was working in the healthcare industry because he was committing medicaid fraud?  I do not base my opinions of politicians off of a single issue or cause, this guy is seriously a criminal.

He was never charged with a crime. He caught a lot of flack because he pleaded the fifth, which is entirely within his constitutional right. Sure it looks suspicious when people do that, but our court system operates on the presumption of innocence. Taking the fifth helps to avoid self incriminating. Scott was the head of a major company. The lawsuit against his company would have had to prove that he knew there were crimes being committed under him. Personally I'm not sure that he did.

*This isn't to say I am a huge Rick Scott fan, I'm really not. He is running the state like he doesn't have to answer to anyone, and it may catch up to him. It's just that on this issue I think it's wrong to presume guilt when he wasn't even charged with a crime. This past election we had to deal with the choice of "Do you want a giant douche-bag or a turd sandwich".. again we were left with trying to decipher the lesser of two evils. I don't think we are ever going to be completely happy with our choices.

Well, it has not been killed definitively. There are theories out there that suggest that Rick Scott is doing this to force the private sector to commit. If that is the case then it is a brilliant move. Scott might be an ass, but he is no dummy when it comes to strategy in the business world.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Tax dollars subsidize a lot of other things as you know.  Football, baseball, etc.  Not to mention highways, which have never and will never actually "pay" for themselves.  I understand the concern but at the same time I feel like it would generate more for the economy than it would cost the state.

All the schools here have field trips to Orlando for theme parks and everyone I know goes there frequently.  Also, I know that if there was high speed rail available I would probably go much more than I currently do.  this is one of those things, where I can see with my own eyes and personal experience, how it would benefit the area.  I don't support government subsizidized rail everywhere, but I am a very strong supporter of this specific plan.

Highways most certainly do pay for themselves. Not directly via tolls, but they allow businesses to transport goods. If they couldn't transport goods, they wouldn't be able to sell anything. If they can't sell anything, no sales or income tax is collected.

That train, however, will never make anyone a profit except Disney. They might as well just build an international airport (at taxpayer expense) right at the entrance of Disney World.

That rail line should keep traffic off the roads, leaving it nice and free for freight, a lot of which actually goes by rail in the US does it not?

Isn't taking in tourist dollars a good thing, you know, balance of trade and all that for very little investment or consumption of resources?
I imagine Disney pay corporate taxes, as do the hotels, restaurants and so on.
Just having an economy which spins madly, depends on foreign loans and importation of resources without generating foreign income is not a clever thing.

But cool, come on a gaming forum, expose your economic stupidity, and whine. Thanks for stopping by.

LOL OK

The $2.5 billion the Federal government was going to invest wouldn't have even covered half.