Yes, as it fits their preconceived notion of what the medic would be like.
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And the game isn't 100% about team work. Are there situations where you're running with a clan and teamwork matters? Absolutely. Do 99% of the players spend the majority of their gamelife on public servers in random squads? Yes. None of them want to play a class that is gimped in 1v1 encounters and none of them will.Adams_BJ wrote:
If that's how you think of a game as diverse and open as battlefield, why have classes at all? Just make everyone assault, drop them on the map and play.JohnG@lt wrote:
Umm, the point of the game is to kill other people. Healing/Reviving/Resupplying is not the primary job of any class, nor should it be. If it was, no one would play the class as it's not what they expect/want from a first person SHOOTER.Adams_BJ wrote:
Thats the point though. If you wanna kill people go assault or sniper. If you wanna revive go medic, if you wanna resupply go support etc etc.
Don't make all the classes useless on the killing field, just that the dedicated "shooters" should be more dominant, to reflect that they are its primary job
COD is a game that every class's first job is to KILL. BF series is so much more than killing. It involves teamwork along the lines of - Healing, resuplly, asset elimination, and asset repair.
Each requires a niche to be filled.
The only classes who's primary job is to kill is Assault and Sniper. People want to play the classes because it is an alternatve way of generating points other than killing, and to help the team along at the same time. You get points to compensate for the fact some of your time is used on something other than shooting the enemy, and to compensate that down time and reward you for doing your class's specific task. Its a tradeoff.
The only class it didn't work for in BF2 was medic, because it had all the killing power of assault as well as the extra points as medic.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
clans are fucking gay. ruin these games imo. well then ruin public servers at least. if you are so leet just stay on your nerd servers ty.
Ok so put 32 players on your team - they all play assault or sniper. The enemy rolls out a mixed load of everything. Within five minutes you have no assets left, all your vehicles are destroyed, you have no flags and your tickets are drying up fast. In the meantime the enemy has all their assets because none of them get damaged by small arms, all of their vehicles are still upand shooting away, they have all the flags because they can get more bodies on point and keep them there, and even though they are still dying, they aren't losing the tickets for the deaths because they are getting revived.JohnG@lt wrote:
And the game isn't 100% about team work. Are there situations where you're running with a clan and teamwork matters? Absolutely. Do 99% of the players spend the majority of their gamelife on public servers in random squads? Yes. None of them want to play a class that is gimped in 1v1 encounters and none of them will.Adams_BJ wrote:
If that's how you think of a game as diverse and open as battlefield, why have classes at all? Just make everyone assault, drop them on the map and play.JohnG@lt wrote:
Umm, the point of the game is to kill other people. Healing/Reviving/Resupplying is not the primary job of any class, nor should it be. If it was, no one would play the class as it's not what they expect/want from a first person SHOOTER.
COD is a game that every class's first job is to KILL. BF series is so much more than killing. It involves teamwork along the lines of - Healing, resuplly, asset elimination, and asset repair.
Each requires a niche to be filled.
The only classes who's primary job is to kill is Assault and Sniper. People want to play the classes because it is an alternatve way of generating points other than killing, and to help the team along at the same time. You get points to compensate for the fact some of your time is used on something other than shooting the enemy, and to compensate that down time and reward you for doing your class's specific task. Its a tradeoff.
The only class it didn't work for in BF2 was medic, because it had all the killing power of assault as well as the extra points as medic.
Who wins? Just because teamwork isn't obvious, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Last edited by Adams_BJ (2011-03-02 17:43:37)
Snipers were so under-appreciated.Adams_BJ wrote:
The only classes who's primary job is to kill is Assault and Sniper. People want to play the classes because it is an alternatve way of generating points other than killing, and to help the team along at the same time. You get points to compensate for the fact some of your time is used on something other than shooting the enemy, and to compensate that down time and reward you for doing your class's specific task. Its a tradeoff.
Yeah, I was that guy who spotted the enemy flanking you. Who softened him up so you could kill him with one shot. Who kept the flag safe from that lone-wolf.
You're missing the point entirely. Your setup would not happen because team B wouldn't have more than a bare handful of medics. No one is going to willfully gimp themselves in 1v1 situations. I don't understand how I can explain this any better.
The primary weapons that each class uses has to be relatively equal, and they are in BC2 (or were the last time I played). If you want to 'balance' the game, you have to do it elsewhere. Go take a look at the BC2 weapons damage charts that I used to update (they're still stickied) and you'll see that each class is pretty much the same weapons-wise. LMGs aren't overpowered, and SMGs aren't underpowered (except at ranges above 25m) etc.
The primary weapons that each class uses has to be relatively equal, and they are in BC2 (or were the last time I played). If you want to 'balance' the game, you have to do it elsewhere. Go take a look at the BC2 weapons damage charts that I used to update (they're still stickied) and you'll see that each class is pretty much the same weapons-wise. LMGs aren't overpowered, and SMGs aren't underpowered (except at ranges above 25m) etc.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
so why even go sniper, AT or engineer? Lots of people still played those classes and they were the most gimped 1v1 out of all of them, skill aside.JohnG@lt wrote:
You're missing the point entirely. Your setup would not happen because team B wouldn't have more than a bare handful of medics. No one is going to willfully gimp themselves in 1v1 situations. I don't understand how I can explain this any better.
The primary weapons that each class uses has to be relatively equal, and they are in BC2 (or were the last time I played). If you want to 'balance' the game, you have to do it elsewhere. Go take a look at the BC2 weapons damage charts that I used to update (they're still stickied) and you'll see that each class is pretty much the same weapons-wise. LMGs aren't overpowered, and SMGs aren't underpowered (except at ranges above 25m) etc.
No, lots of people did not play AT or engineer(except vehicle whores). That's why we're having this conversation in the first place. This started (and still is afaik) as a conversation about overpowered medics in BF2.Adams_BJ wrote:
so why even go sniper, AT or engineer? Lots of people still played those classes and they were the most gimped 1v1 out of all of them, skill aside.JohnG@lt wrote:
You're missing the point entirely. Your setup would not happen because team B wouldn't have more than a bare handful of medics. No one is going to willfully gimp themselves in 1v1 situations. I don't understand how I can explain this any better.
The primary weapons that each class uses has to be relatively equal, and they are in BC2 (or were the last time I played). If you want to 'balance' the game, you have to do it elsewhere. Go take a look at the BC2 weapons damage charts that I used to update (they're still stickied) and you'll see that each class is pretty much the same weapons-wise. LMGs aren't overpowered, and SMGs aren't underpowered (except at ranges above 25m) etc.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-02 17:49:11)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
yeah overpowered, which I adressed. But you said no-one would wilfully gimp themselves 1v1, yet arguably the 2nd most played class out of all them (the sniper) is the most gimped 1v1 class there is, and the AT and Eng classes are still well played on servers other than IO - because that is what they are there for! Ofcourse you won't see an entire team filled with AT or Eng on an IO server, they are useless, look on a vehicle server and just about every squad has at least one. At least.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, lots of people did not play AT or engineer. That's why we're having this conversation in the first place. This started (and still is afaik) as a conversation about overpowered medics in BF2.Adams_BJ wrote:
so why even go sniper, AT or engineer? Lots of people still played those classes and they were the most gimped 1v1 out of all of them, skill aside.JohnG@lt wrote:
You're missing the point entirely. Your setup would not happen because team B wouldn't have more than a bare handful of medics. No one is going to willfully gimp themselves in 1v1 situations. I don't understand how I can explain this any better.
The primary weapons that each class uses has to be relatively equal, and they are in BC2 (or were the last time I played). If you want to 'balance' the game, you have to do it elsewhere. Go take a look at the BC2 weapons damage charts that I used to update (they're still stickied) and you'll see that each class is pretty much the same weapons-wise. LMGs aren't overpowered, and SMGs aren't underpowered (except at ranges above 25m) etc.
Which is when I go back to the COD and BF reference. CODs only goal is to kill the enemy, so all classes specialising in killing, but in different ways. BF is about so much more, so every class has their niche. If every class could kill just as well, there would be no need to have a primary killing class, everyone would just go medic and support.
Medics were overpowered only because they racked up so many points (and G36E was rather broken) and because they could just sit on a health pack. Fix the points, and remove the ability to use a health pack if you've been shooting for 3-5 seconds or whatever. Done. Voila. Class balanced.Adams_BJ wrote:
yeah overpowered, which I adressed. But you said no-one would wilfully gimp themselves 1v1, yet arguably the 2nd most played class out of all them (the sniper) is the most gimped 1v1 class there is, and the AT and Eng classes are still well played on servers other than IO - because that is what they are there for! Ofcourse you won't see an entire team filled with AT or Eng on an IO server, they are useless, look on a vehicle server and just about every squad has at least one. At least.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, lots of people did not play AT or engineer. That's why we're having this conversation in the first place. This started (and still is afaik) as a conversation about overpowered medics in BF2.Adams_BJ wrote:
so why even go sniper, AT or engineer? Lots of people still played those classes and they were the most gimped 1v1 out of all of them, skill aside.
Which is when I go back to the COD and BF reference. CODs only goal is to kill the enemy, so all classes specialising in killing, but in different ways. BF is about so much more, so every class has their niche. If every class could kill just as well, there would be no need to have a primary killing class, everyone would just go medic and support.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
And don't give them a primary weapon that you would think would be in an assault players hands.JohnG@lt wrote:
Medics were overpowered only because they racked up so many points (and G36E was rather broken) and because they could just sit on a health pack. Fix the points, and remove the ability to use a health pack if you've been shooting for 3-5 seconds or whatever. Done. Voila. Class balanced.Adams_BJ wrote:
yeah overpowered, which I adressed. But you said no-one would wilfully gimp themselves 1v1, yet arguably the 2nd most played class out of all them (the sniper) is the most gimped 1v1 class there is, and the AT and Eng classes are still well played on servers other than IO - because that is what they are there for! Ofcourse you won't see an entire team filled with AT or Eng on an IO server, they are useless, look on a vehicle server and just about every squad has at least one. At least.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, lots of people did not play AT or engineer. That's why we're having this conversation in the first place. This started (and still is afaik) as a conversation about overpowered medics in BF2.
Which is when I go back to the COD and BF reference. CODs only goal is to kill the enemy, so all classes specialising in killing, but in different ways. BF is about so much more, so every class has their niche. If every class could kill just as well, there would be no need to have a primary killing class, everyone would just go medic and support.
The AK-101 was a dream gun, yet the medic had it. You better believe I took advantage of that shit. Just look at my stats - MEC/Sharqi/Medic.
Give them an M4 or the scar like the Spec ops players had. It could kill, sure, but it wasn't as easy as picking up the assault rifle and mowing down a squad. You actually had to OUTPLAY the other players, not just outshoot.
Dude, whatever, you'll never get it. Just don't bitch when BF3 comes out and its not exactly as you think it should be. The devs realize it just as much as I do: you can not gimp the primary weapon of any class without trading off power with a different weapon. Engineer class has an effective range of 25m with their primary weapon. Ok, and it's compensated for by giving them rockets that are effective at long range and the ability to take out tanks. Assault has the ability to blow down buildings and half assedly take on tanks. Medics live and die by their primary weapon. They have no other tools to kill their opponents. THAT is balance.Adams_BJ wrote:
And don't give them a primary weapon that you would think would be in an assault players hands.JohnG@lt wrote:
Medics were overpowered only because they racked up so many points (and G36E was rather broken) and because they could just sit on a health pack. Fix the points, and remove the ability to use a health pack if you've been shooting for 3-5 seconds or whatever. Done. Voila. Class balanced.Adams_BJ wrote:
yeah overpowered, which I adressed. But you said no-one would wilfully gimp themselves 1v1, yet arguably the 2nd most played class out of all them (the sniper) is the most gimped 1v1 class there is, and the AT and Eng classes are still well played on servers other than IO - because that is what they are there for! Ofcourse you won't see an entire team filled with AT or Eng on an IO server, they are useless, look on a vehicle server and just about every squad has at least one. At least.
Which is when I go back to the COD and BF reference. CODs only goal is to kill the enemy, so all classes specialising in killing, but in different ways. BF is about so much more, so every class has their niche. If every class could kill just as well, there would be no need to have a primary killing class, everyone would just go medic and support.
The AK-101 was a dream gun, yet the medic had it. You better believe I took advantage of that shit. Just look at my stats - MEC/Sharqi/Medic.
Give them an M4 or the scar like the Spec ops players had. It could kill, sure, but it wasn't as easy as picking up the assault rifle and mowing down a squad. You actually had to OUTPLAY the other players, not just outshoot.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
But I do get it, and you sort of brushed upon it in your post without realising it. You have to forget about 1v1 and think about the battlefield experience.JohnG@lt wrote:
Dude, whatever, you'll never get it. Just don't bitch when BF3 comes out and its not exactly as you think it should be. The devs realize it just as much as I do: you can not gimp the primary weapon of any class without trading off power with a different weapon. Engineer class has an effective range of 25m with their primary weapon. Ok, and it's compensated for by giving them rockets that are effective at long range and the ability to take out tanks. Assault has the ability to blow down buildings and half assedly take on tanks. Medics live and die by their primary weapon. They have no other tools to kill their opponents. THAT is balance.Adams_BJ wrote:
And don't give them a primary weapon that you would think would be in an assault players hands.JohnG@lt wrote:
Medics were overpowered only because they racked up so many points (and G36E was rather broken) and because they could just sit on a health pack. Fix the points, and remove the ability to use a health pack if you've been shooting for 3-5 seconds or whatever. Done. Voila. Class balanced.
The AK-101 was a dream gun, yet the medic had it. You better believe I took advantage of that shit. Just look at my stats - MEC/Sharqi/Medic.
Give them an M4 or the scar like the Spec ops players had. It could kill, sure, but it wasn't as easy as picking up the assault rifle and mowing down a squad. You actually had to OUTPLAY the other players, not just outshoot.
Yes engineer class has an effective range of 25m. Outside of that its in trouble. BUT IT CAN TAKE OUT TANKS. Sniper is +50 and inside of that its in trouble. BUT IT HAS RANGE. Engineer is effective inside 25m and any further its in trouble. BUT IT CAN REPAIR ASSETS. Supports is effective inside anywhere from 50 to 100 metres, much further or closer and its in trouble. BUT IT CAN RESUPPLY. Assault is effective anywhere from 0 to 100+ metres. MAKING IT THE MOST EFFECTIVE AT COMBAT. The only trouble you have is medic, which has the same effectivness but also heals. Thats a balance issue. Give it a different gun, the spec ops gun seems fair, not gimped, still effective in combat, but doesn't overpower every class like the assault rifle can.
hmmmmm... after watching the trailer, if DICE is going for realism so much, why don't el marines have standard rear sights installed on their rifles?
Clans are fine. What's gay are the gay little rules they apply to their servers which weren't intended by the devs.11 Bravo wrote:
clans are fucking gay. ruin these games imo. well then ruin public servers at least. if you are so leet just stay on your nerd servers ty.
What if medic kept assault rifle while assault could have both an assault rifle and rocket launcher? Johnny? Adams?
Otherwise I'll side with adams on this one, you can fricken heal yourself with medkits to make up for assault doing more damage against you. I'd honestly still be a medic if I had the assault carbine.
Otherwise I'll side with adams on this one, you can fricken heal yourself with medkits to make up for assault doing more damage against you. I'd honestly still be a medic if I had the assault carbine.
Last edited by War Man (2011-03-02 19:45:52)
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
You can't heal yourself if you're dead. The G36 is lovely, but the G3 and F2000 are pretty underestimated.
i dont agree. the biggest bunch of assholes i have ever met in online fps are clan fags.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Clans are fine. What's gay are the gay little rules they apply to their servers which weren't intended by the devs.11 Bravo wrote:
clans are fucking gay. ruin these games imo. well then ruin public servers at least. if you are so leet just stay on your nerd servers ty.
And assault counters the healing ability with one shot kill noob tubes. We can go around and around and around if you want but BC2 is/was just about the most balanced FPS I've ever encountered. It blows the balance found in BF2 away. They aren't even in the same ballpark.War Man wrote:
What if medic kept assault rifle while assault could have both an assault rifle and rocket launcher? Johnny? Adams?
Otherwise I'll side with adams on this one, you can fricken heal yourself with medkits to make up for assault doing more damage against you. I'd honestly still be a medic if I had the assault carbine.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Did Shifty hijack your account?Trotskygrad wrote:
hmmmmm... after watching the trailer, if DICE is going for realism so much, why don't el marines have standard rear sights installed on their rifles?
The Medics in BF2 are fine.
negative sir. even though im a medic whore I can still tell that there is a big problem if people use the medic class AS the assault class.Roc18 wrote:
The Medics in BF2 are fine.
I agree, BC2 did a phenomenal in class balance. Now a thing about the noob tube, what if you are in cover so it is difficult to instant kill the medic with a gl? What if the Medic is a little too far for the assault guy to be effective in using the GL?JohnG@lt wrote:
And assault counters the healing ability with one shot kill noob tubes. We can go around and around and around if you want but BC2 is/was just about the most balanced FPS I've ever encountered. It blows the balance found in BF2 away. They aren't even in the same ballpark.War Man wrote:
What if medic kept assault rifle while assault could have both an assault rifle and rocket launcher? Johnny? Adams?
Otherwise I'll side with adams on this one, you can fricken heal yourself with medkits to make up for assault doing more damage against you. I'd honestly still be a medic if I had the assault carbine.
If the medic player is smart he will quickly find a place to take cover in and self heal then get back to the fight. If there is no cover then aim for the head. If medic gets an assault carbine, I will show you how to be a medic while you can be assault with your gl and rifle.
Last edited by War Man (2011-03-02 22:10:16)
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
The assault class has more health and gets a grenade launcher, I think that balances the two classes especially with the amount of medics running around to heal you anyways.Adams_BJ wrote:
negative sir. even though im a medic whore I can still tell that there is a big problem if people use the medic class AS the assault class.Roc18 wrote:
The Medics in BF2 are fine.
Found this Gamerspawn video on BF3 check it out, they break everything down very well.
yeah, so why choose the medic over the assault then?Roc18 wrote:
The assault class has more health and gets a grenade launcher, I think that balances the two classes especially with the amount of medics running around to heal you anyways.Adams_BJ wrote:
negative sir. even though im a medic whore I can still tell that there is a big problem if people use the medic class AS the assault class.Roc18 wrote:
The Medics in BF2 are fine.
Found this Gamerspawn video on BF3 check it out, they break everything down very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox_9jwcf … ture=feedu
what about medic vs everything other than assault?
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