you trust floppy has a disease?
Internets coming this week. Gonna get a new pc and pirate all night long, gonna be sweet.
I don't know if he has an illness, but at the least it sounds like a disorder.
What's wrong with that?11 Bravo wrote:
ya facedesk. do you pirate them first then buy them if you like it?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
/facedesk
Download all you want, it is stealing (or copyright infringement, take your pick.), at least admit that to yourself, I do.
Last edited by Nic (2011-02-28 05:09:14)
cuz its stealingliquidat0r wrote:
What's wrong with that?11 Bravo wrote:
ya facedesk. do you pirate them first then buy them if you like it?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
/facedesk
For the last, rambling TL;DR time (going to have to write myself a note):
As a kid with no money, I wasn't an the industry's viable market. Downloading games introduced me to titles, series and genres that I would have never tried or heard of. As a result afterward, armed with a brand-new income, not only was I in the industry's viable market, but instead of buying maybe three or four games, I bought about fifty within the first year.
Of course, it doesn't always turn out like that when downloaders are concerned. But in my case it was a win-win scenario hugely in the favor of studios big and small. They lost nothing when I couldn't afford much, and subsequently gained everything when I could actually buy it. There's not a game, show or album I downloaded back in the day that isn't now legit, and sometimes in duplicate to boot (digital). The reason this has seen so much debate on and off the internet is because it isn't a cut-and-dried issue as advertised.
In simple terms:
Me not having downloaded in the past would now = industry with my eventual $.
Me having downloaded in the past now = industry with my eventual $$$.
I'd say the compromise was worth it for both sides.
Now that the industry has remediated some of the old problems by increasingly moving into the digital format (with much lower prices, thank you Steam and Amazon: $5 for a relatively recent game is by no means outside of an average gaming teen's budget), plausible excuses for piracy have been reduced. Take, for example, someone obviously with the funds to do so (thus falling into the viable market), not buying Minecraft, but still playing it for hours and hours. No real excuse, there.
So yes, the sheer amount of times I've explained this type of scenario to industry white knights (god knows why I bother) calls for a forehead-bashing, bruise-tempting, dizzying facedesk of unconsciousness-inducing force. But I shall settle with face-to-keyboard.
gfttifdjk
As a kid with no money, I wasn't an the industry's viable market. Downloading games introduced me to titles, series and genres that I would have never tried or heard of. As a result afterward, armed with a brand-new income, not only was I in the industry's viable market, but instead of buying maybe three or four games, I bought about fifty within the first year.
Of course, it doesn't always turn out like that when downloaders are concerned. But in my case it was a win-win scenario hugely in the favor of studios big and small. They lost nothing when I couldn't afford much, and subsequently gained everything when I could actually buy it. There's not a game, show or album I downloaded back in the day that isn't now legit, and sometimes in duplicate to boot (digital). The reason this has seen so much debate on and off the internet is because it isn't a cut-and-dried issue as advertised.
In simple terms:
Me not having downloaded in the past would now = industry with my eventual $.
Me having downloaded in the past now = industry with my eventual $$$.
I'd say the compromise was worth it for both sides.
Now that the industry has remediated some of the old problems by increasingly moving into the digital format (with much lower prices, thank you Steam and Amazon: $5 for a relatively recent game is by no means outside of an average gaming teen's budget), plausible excuses for piracy have been reduced. Take, for example, someone obviously with the funds to do so (thus falling into the viable market), not buying Minecraft, but still playing it for hours and hours. No real excuse, there.
So yes, the sheer amount of times I've explained this type of scenario to industry white knights (god knows why I bother) calls for a forehead-bashing, bruise-tempting, dizzying facedesk of unconsciousness-inducing force. But I shall settle with face-to-keyboard.
gfttifdjk
- globefish23
- sophisticated slacker
- +334|6608|Graz, Austria
11 Bravo wrote:
who cares who owns what and who pays what. the product is sold. therefore taking it without paying is stealing.
Again you're wrong there.11 Bravo wrote:
yes you would. i bought music and movies before the interweb. so......
You have never bought and will never be able to "buy" music and movies.
You pay for a license. You only bought the media that it comes on (disc, tape, paper,...).
You can do what you want with the physical media, but the license prohibits you to do so with the copyrighted content.
And if you pay your license but get a digital download (Steam, D2D,...) you don't even have any physical media.
So why do you continuously speak about theft? There is nothing that can be stolen. There isn't even anything that has been sold in the first place.
It's copyright infringement. You breach the license contract.
Except for example for private copies here in Austria, as I have told you twice before.
Having said that, I have indeed violated the latter, by using cracks for software/games, which circumvents copyright protections.
All the music and movies/TV series I have downloaded are very, very legal, because it does not matter under Austria's law for private copy from which source I actually get the content.
I just can't fucking stand your persistent use of wrong terms.
It's called being addicted to the computer. The treatment is flipping the On/Off switch to "Off".Jaekus wrote:
I don't know if he has an illness, but at the least it sounds like a disorder.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Then so is listening to the radio. I certainly didn't pay for the music that I'm listening to.11 Bravo wrote:
cuz its stealingliquidat0r wrote:
What's wrong with that?11 Bravo wrote:
ya facedesk. do you pirate them first then buy them if you like it?
Or what about Youtube videos? I can listen to them any time I wish, just like I can if I pop in a CD. I can even listen to them in the car via my phone.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-02-28 06:13:17)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
- globefish23
- sophisticated slacker
- +334|6608|Graz, Austria
I guess that's covered by advertising (commercial stations) and by government funding (PBS, NPR,...).JohnG@lt wrote:
Then so is listening to the radio. I certainly didn't pay for the music that I'm listening to.11 Bravo wrote:
cuz its stealingliquidat0r wrote:
What's wrong with that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television … ted_States
A lot of other countries require you to pay a TV license, which covers that (at least what I can tell for Austria).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence
Not to speak of the added fees we have to pay for blank media like tapes, CDs, DVDs and even HDDs and USB drives, as well as hardware like VCRs, CD/DVD burners and HDD recorders.
Actually, a lot of YouTube videos are blocked by major labels/movie studios outside the USA, so I guess that Google has some special deal nowadays.JohnG@lt wrote:
Or what about Youtube videos? I can listen to them any time I wish, just like I can if I pop in a CD. I can even listen to them in the car via my phone.
Speaking of cars, a few years ago we had to pay for TV/radio license for car radios (and mobile radios/TVs), but that got changed, so now you only need to pay if you have a a receiver inside an immovable property.
That means, it is fine here in Austria to plant the antenna and the receiver outside in your garden, and connect it to a monitor (only!) inside.
Sure, it's paid for by advertising, but the record companies don't receive a penny from the radio stations directly.globefish23 wrote:
I guess that's covered by advertising (commercial stations) and by government funding (PBS, NPR,...).JohnG@lt wrote:
Then so is listening to the radio. I certainly didn't pay for the music that I'm listening to.11 Bravo wrote:
cuz its stealing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television … ted_States
A lot of other countries require you to pay a TV license, which covers that (at least what I can tell for Austria).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence
Not to speak of the added fees we have to pay for blank media like tapes, CDs, DVDs and even HDDs and USB drives, as well as hardware like VCRs, CD/DVD burners and HDD recorders.
Thank you for that... interesting... peek into Austrian life. Riveting.globefish23 wrote:
Actually, a lot of YouTube videos are blocked by major labels/movie studios outside the USA, so I guess that Google has some special deal nowadays.JohnG@lt wrote:
Or what about Youtube videos? I can listen to them any time I wish, just like I can if I pop in a CD. I can even listen to them in the car via my phone.
Speaking of cars, a few years ago we had to pay for TV/radio license for car radios (and mobile radios/TVs), but that got changed, so now you only need to pay if you have a a receiver inside an immovable property.
That means, it is fine here in Austria to plant the antenna and the receiver outside in your garden, and connect it to a monitor (only!) inside.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-02-28 08:24:43)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
*peek
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Indeed.Uzique wrote:
*peek
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
thats all about advertising...which pays everyone downline. however the song sitting on little jonnies puter makes nobody any money.JohnG@lt wrote:
Then so is listening to the radio. I certainly didn't pay for the music that I'm listening to.11 Bravo wrote:
cuz its stealingliquidat0r wrote:
What's wrong with that?
Or what about Youtube videos? I can listen to them any time I wish, just like I can if I pop in a CD. I can even listen to them in the car via my phone.
its fucking stealing.globefish23 wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
who cares who owns what and who pays what. the product is sold. therefore taking it without paying is stealing.Again you're wrong there.11 Bravo wrote:
yes you would. i bought music and movies before the interweb. so......
You have never bought and will never be able to "buy" music and movies.
You pay for a license. You only bought the media that it comes on (disc, tape, paper,...).
You can do what you want with the physical media, but the license prohibits you to do so with the copyrighted content.
And if you pay your license but get a digital download (Steam, D2D,...) you don't even have any physical media.
So why do you continuously speak about theft? There is nothing that can be stolen. There isn't even anything that has been sold in the first place.
It's copyright infringement. You breach the license contract.
Except for example for private copies here in Austria, as I have told you twice before.
Having said that, I have indeed violated the latter, by using cracks for software/games, which circumvents copyright protections.
All the music and movies/TV series I have downloaded are very, very legal, because it does not matter under Austria's law for private copy from which source I actually get the content.
I just can't fucking stand your persistent use of wrong terms.
semantics is for thieving twats
It makes the record company just as much as the radio station does. He finds song, tells all his friends about said song. Buys a t-shirt, maybe some concert tickets. It's advertising.11 Bravo wrote:
thats all about advertising...which pays everyone downline. however the song sitting on little jonnies puter makes nobody any money.JohnG@lt wrote:
Then so is listening to the radio. I certainly didn't pay for the music that I'm listening to.11 Bravo wrote:
cuz its stealing
Or what about Youtube videos? I can listen to them any time I wish, just like I can if I pop in a CD. I can even listen to them in the car via my phone.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
11b why do you care so much? Just masturbate or something if you're so frustrated.
in usm's defense... in the general, common use of the term... it is to 'steal'. as in, the verb. legal definitions are different; this is a forum, not a court-room.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
because it costs honest people more money...or takes away from the product because developers have to spend time trying to stop you fagsjord wrote:
11b why do you care so much? Just masturbate or something if you're so frustrated.
I see. Well carry on then, but it'll get you nowhere.11 Bravo wrote:
because it costs honest people more money...or takes away from the product because developers have to spend time trying to stop you fagsjord wrote:
11b why do you care so much? Just masturbate or something if you're so frustrated.
Because through piracy I have discovered more music that I like. I have since purchased some of this music. I would never have purchased it otherwise.11 Bravo wrote:
"If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't be spending money on music. How's that"liquidat0r wrote:
I have no idea what you're getting at.
???
Case in point: I downloaded lots of stuff by an artist called Artist1. I had never heard of him before. I really enjoyed his music having downloaded it. He then brought a new album out. I then purchased that album. This has happened multiple times, and is happening as we speak.
Piracy (albeit not on its own) has lead me to purchase many new albums in various formats (CD, digital), both newly released and old.
As for games: Generally, I buy them. I have quite a lot of games on both my shelf and on my Steam account. I've only pirated a few, and where I have pirated them one of the following is true, with a couple of exceptions (see below):
1) I've bought the game having tried it
2) I already owned the game (either on another console or I've lost the disc)
A couple of games that I pirated I played for a bit and decided I didn't like at all. Another game I pirated I later bought the next game in the series.
Movies and TV are, admittedly, a different story.
While my family's collective DVD collection is quite vast there are definitely plenty of films that I've downloaded and have never paid for. That said, I did see a large selection of these downloaded films in the cinema. I buy DVDs regularly, but I also download films regularly.
TV: I have no problems downloading free British TV programmes. Most of them are available to stream, legally, for free anyhow.
I've watched a few US TV series such as House and Dexter but I haven't bought them, yet. I own seasons 1 and 2 of House, and S1-3 of Prison Break but generally boxsets are so goddamn expensive. If I ever feel like watching, for example, Dexter again then I'll buy it.
Also, piracy introduced me to shows such as Prison Break and Dexter ... so piracy's doing a good thing (in my case) for the industry there.
Summary:
- Piracy has introduced me to a wider variety of music, and TV. I have then bought some of this material
- Piracy has enabled me to try out new games. I have then bought some of these games
- I download films illegally. I also buy films and go to the cinema
- If I had an unlimited budget I wouldn't pirate anything
I'm not saying piracy is a 100% good thing. But in my case (definitely for music, somewhat for games, and a bit for TV and film): Piracy is making me spend money that I otherwise would not spend on music/film/games/etc.
A further thing: Me pirating and then buying music has introduced my girlfriend and housemates to more music. They have then bought some of this music, which they would never have heard if it weren't for myself and piracy.
this whole 'wider variety' and 'try before you buy' thing is not a savvy argument.
it just isn't.
how did people discover and consume music before internet piracy? you think they just listened to the same 10 artists?
the only difference is consumer quality control: you have been enabled to buy more stuff THAT YOU LIKE.
this qualitative improvement, however, means nothing to the industry and the bottom-line dollar loss.
it just isn't.
how did people discover and consume music before internet piracy? you think they just listened to the same 10 artists?
the only difference is consumer quality control: you have been enabled to buy more stuff THAT YOU LIKE.
this qualitative improvement, however, means nothing to the industry and the bottom-line dollar loss.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
As someone who spends £500ish on festivals and gigs, I feel entitled to download the occasional track now and again Most of the time I don't download music to find out if I like it, if someone suggests an artist to me I'll either ask them to recommend some tracks or take the top ten off lastfm then listen to them on youtube.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
Uzique wrote:
this whole 'wider variety' and 'try before you buy' thing is not a savvy argument.
it just isn't.
how did people discover and consume music before internet piracy? you think they just listened to the same 10 artists?
the only difference is consumer quality control: you have been enabled to buy more stuff THAT YOU LIKE.
this qualitative improvement, however, means nothing to the industry and the bottom-line dollar loss.