Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6688|Tampa Bay Florida
Interesting article

Osama bin Laden must be sitting in his comfortably appointed hideaway somewhere in northwest Pakistan watching the events in the Middle East unfold with a mixture of glee and despair.

Glee, because overthrowing the dictatorships and monarchies of the Middle East has long been his central goal.

Despair, because none of the Arab revolutions has anything to do with him.

There were no revolutionaries in the streets of Cairo carrying placards with pictures of bin Laden's face, nor are the protesters in Bahrain spouting al Qaeda's venomous critiques of the West. Those calling for the overthrow of Gadhafi are not graduates of bin Laden's training camps

The Google executives and Facebook revolutionaries who launched the revolt in Egypt represent everything that bin Laden and al Qaeda hate: Secular, liberal and anti-authoritarian, they also include -- gasp -- women.
Even the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist mass movement in Egypt, which joined the revolution as it was already in motion, is opposed by al Qaeda.

The Brotherhood participates in conventional politics and elections, which bin Laden and his followers believe are against Islam.
Al Qaeda's No. 2, the Egyptian Ayman al-Zawahiri, has even written an entire book condemning the Muslim Brotherhood.
Predictably, last week Zawahiri released an audiotape opportunistically seeking to position al Qaeda as having some sort of role in the momentous events unfolding in the Arab world.

In the tape Zawahiri called for his native Egypt to be governed as an Islamic state. Of course, Egypt is already a country where Islam plays a key role as about nine out of 10 Egyptians are Muslim, and Al-Azhar University in central Cairo is the nearest that Sunni Islam comes to having a Vatican.  What Zawahiri means by his call for an Islamic state is that Egypt should be run as a Taliban-style theocracy with no rights for women or minorities.

Egyptians are not clamoring for Taliban-like rule. Quite the reverse: They want elections, respect for human rights, and a plan to get Egypt's stagnant economy back on its feet.

And the protests in Cairo were notable for the warm relations that were exhibited between Christians and Muslims. Al Qaeda regards Christians as "infidels" who should be killed

The revolts in the Middle East underline al Qaeda's increasing irrelevance to Muslims. Even before the revolutionaries first took to the streets of Tunisia, al Qaeda was losing the "war of ideas" in the Islamic world.

From Indonesia to Jordan, support for bin Laden, al-Qaeda and its signature tactic -- the suicide attack -- has been plunging for years, according to any number of polls.

That's because more and more Muslims know that many of the victims of al Qaeda and its allies are themselves Muslim civilians. For groups that pose as the defenders of true Islam, this is not impressive

And there is a widespread understanding among Muslims that al Qaeda isn't offering anything in the way of ideas about how to improve the lot of the tens of millions of young men without jobs in the Islamic world.

All al Qaeda is offering is violence and the promise of a Taliban-style utopia here on earth.

The vast majority of Muslims don't approve of the violence and they aren't taken in by the empty promises of utopia as imagined by the Taliban.

Bin Laden will feel compelled to release his own tape in the coming days commenting on the revolutions in the Arab world. Few will be listening.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/23/b … tml?hpt=T2
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Its always been as relevant as the Westboro Baptist Church.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
CC-Marley
Member
+407|6826
God Hates Bin Laden
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5997|...
Al Qaeda, by attacking the US, signed it's own death warrant. They had a safe base of operations in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and were internationally engaged in all sorts of activities. Simultaneously they enjoyed relatively high popularity and a decent following.

As soon as they drilled those planes in the twin towers, they got pushed out of Afghanistan - largely due to severely underestimating the US response. They anticipated on having to deal with a couple ballistic missiles or air raids, similar in to how Clinton responded to Iraq. Bin Laden, who was involved with the whole somalia crisis, really didn't anticipate a full scale invasion.

Now they're stuck on the border of north waziristan / balochistan and the afghan mountains, pretty much desperately clinging on. What was an organisation that spanned across multipile nations is now pretty much reduced to ash. To make matters worse for them, they lost the support they had due to their worldview / actions and continued use of suicide bombings. Al Qaeda is finished.

If however bin laden is still alive somewhere and after the whole war is over pops back up, the man is most definitely still a threat - even more dangerous than before. He's now pretty much a legend in Afghanistan and could probably round up support from anyone.
inane little opines
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6151|what

dayarath wrote:

Al Qaeda, by attacking the US, signed it's own death warrant. They had a safe base of operations in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and were internationally engaged in all sorts of activities. Simultaneously they enjoyed relatively high popularity and a decent following.
I agree. I much prefered Al Qauda when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US with training and weapons.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5997|...

AussieReaper wrote:

I agree. I much prefered Al Qauda when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US with training and weapons.
Not all Al Qaeda members were part of the mujahideen and many say to have refused any US help I doubt the US could've possibly foreseen that this would've been the result.

In a sense they succeeded though, while not causing a revolt to the US throughout the entire ME, they succesfully provoked the US into what seems like a never ending conflict and have made them immensely impopular in the ME.

Last edited by dayarath (2011-02-23 15:06:57)

inane little opines
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|6321|Graz, Austria

AussieReaper wrote:

I much prefered Al Qauda when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US Rambo with training and weapons.
Fixed.
https://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1130/ramboiii030310744.jpg
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6220|Brisneyland
Its funny because I read an article recently that claimed that the pro war lobby has gone quiet at the moment because they realise that there was a good chance that Iraq would have staged a revolution itself without the invasion of the US.
Why the silence on Libya

Crikey.com wrote:

The Libyan revolution makes it clear that the Iraqi people could have, and almost certainly would have, stood up to Saddam in this current wave of uprisings 
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5997|...

Burwhale wrote:

Its funny because I read an article recently that claimed that the pro war lobby has gone quiet at the moment because they realise that there was a good chance that Iraq would have staged a revolution itself without the invasion of the US.
Why the silence on Libya

Crikey.com wrote:

The Libyan revolution makes it clear that the Iraqi people could have, and almost certainly would have, stood up to Saddam in this current wave of uprisings 
Lol, seriously, are you implying they could've foreseen this revolution wave in 2003?
inane little opines
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6714

Burwhale wrote:

Its funny because I read an article recently that claimed that the pro war lobby has gone quiet at the moment because they realise that there was a good chance that Iraq would have staged a revolution itself without the invasion of the US.
Why the silence on Libya

Crikey.com wrote:

The Libyan revolution makes it clear that the Iraqi people could have, and almost certainly would have, stood up to Saddam in this current wave of uprisings 
Doubt the Iraqi people could've overthrown Saddam, especially without US backing.

Bush Sr. fucked the Iraqi people over when he told them to rise up and didn't give any support.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

Burwhale wrote:

Its funny because I read an article recently that claimed that the pro war lobby has gone quiet at the moment because they realise that there was a good chance that Iraq would have staged a revolution itself without the invasion of the US. 
The last thing they wanted was for a wave of revolutions to sweep the ME. Just Iraq would have been fine but not the rest.

Maybe thats why Bush I changed his mind and let the Marsh Arabs be slaughtered after he called on them to rise up.
Probably he realised that might mean Egypt and Saudi Arabia could go too, Saddam gone would have been nice but not despots on Bush's side.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-24 04:19:23)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6220|Brisneyland

dayarath wrote:

Lol, seriously, are you implying they could've foreseen this revolution wave in 2003?
I am not implying anything, just merely pointing peoples attention to an article I found interesting. It would be impossible to predict the future of course. Having said that wherever theres a despot in charge of an unhappy population, massive revolution would be on the cards somewhere.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5997|...
Yeah but in some cases it's better to act than wait. Look what NK has become.

Furthermore, Gaddafi was an idiot, I think that Saddam's family wouldve been much more effective in quelling an uprising.

Last edited by dayarath (2011-02-24 06:19:27)

inane little opines
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6466

dayarath wrote:

Yeah but in some cases it's better to act than wait. Look what NK has become.

Furthermore, Gaddafi was an idiot, I think the Saddam family wouldve been much more effective in quelling an uprising.
Saddam was his first name.
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|5997|Vortex Ring State

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Yeah but in some cases it's better to act than wait. Look what NK has become.

Furthermore, Gaddafi was an idiot, I think the Saddam family wouldve been much more effective in quelling an uprising.
Saddam was his first name.
Hussein is the last name of too many arab families...

durr

anyways yes I would say bin laden is becoming irrelevant. Al-Qaeda as a group may re-organize and strike again, or perhaps just rethink it's mode of operation

Last edited by Trotskygrad (2011-02-24 06:21:06)

Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5997|...

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

Saddam was his first name.
happy now ?
inane little opines
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6466

Trotskygrad wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Yeah but in some cases it's better to act than wait. Look what NK has become.

Furthermore, Gaddafi was an idiot, I think the Saddam family wouldve been much more effective in quelling an uprising.
Saddam was his first name.
Hussein is the last name of too many arab families...

durr

anyways yes I would say bin laden is becoming irrelevant
Yet he still called them "the Saddam family," implying that Saddam was the name of the family, when it was instead just the name of its patriarch.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6409|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Al Qaeda, by attacking the US, signed it's own death warrant. They had a safe base of operations in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and were internationally engaged in all sorts of activities. Simultaneously they enjoyed relatively high popularity and a decent following.
I agree. I much prefered Al Qauda the mujahedeen when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US with training and weapons.
Fixed. AQ didn't exist until well after the Russkies got booted. lrn2history.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5583

Didn't the Muja split and into the Taliban and Northern Alliance and fight each other after the Russians left?

My knowledge Afghan history is kinda light, so correct me if I'm wrong here.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6409|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

Didn't the Muja split and into the Taliban and Northern Alliance and fight each other after the Russians left?

My knowledge Afghan history is kinda light, so correct me if I'm wrong here.
Those were the two main factions, but there were others. Mainly along traditional tribal lines. AQ was formed of foreign fighters who had come into Afghanistan to fight with the muj, led by UBL. But it wasn't based out of AFG until much later (remember the "pharmaceutical plant" in Sudan?). They got chased out of several places before they finally settled in Afghanistan.

But those are just pesky old historical facty things. Irrelevant when euros get their dander up about CIA conspiracies and whatnot.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

globefish23 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

I much prefered Al Qauda when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US Rambo with training and weapons.
Fixed.
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1130 … 310744.jpg
Tom Hanks wanted to build schools there after the Soviets called it quits, but nobody would listen to him. Oh wait, that was Charlie Wilson.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5699|College Park, MD

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

globefish23 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

I much prefered Al Qauda when they were opposing the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and propped up by the US Rambo with training and weapons.
Fixed.
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/1130 … 310744.jpg
Tom Hanks wanted to build schools there after the Soviets called it quits, but nobody would listen to him. Oh wait, that was Charlie Sheen.
fixed
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg

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