Turquoise, no one we know, knew who Hosni Mubarak is or what the issue was last week. Please don't try to pass us off as a nation of concerned citizens, because we are not, and I suspect that includes your educated friends.Turquoise wrote:
Ok, well, let me rephrase. The majority of educated Americans I know feel the way that I posted.lowing wrote:
Well I think Turquoise spoke out of turn. Truth is, most Americans don't give a flying fuck what happens to Egypt, as long as whatever happens does not cost us at the gas pump or force longer lines at airport security. Indeed the vast majority of Americans last week, had never heard the name Hosni Mubarak, much like the vast majority of us never heard of Osama Bin Laden before 911. We are talking about a nation of citizens so self absorbed and stupid that a significant percentage of us has no idea what the significance of DEC 7th 41 is, or what the 3 branches of our govt. are.CameronPoe wrote:
Why would Americans be worried what takes its place? Is America a militarily weak nation bordering Egypt or something?? Are Americans averse to self determination and 'power to the people' in the context of a nation of desperate underemployed, underfed subjects of a kleptocrat, just looking for some bread and a job? Or is the real reason that they don't want true Arab sentiment electing leaders because the middle east is where a large percentage of the world's oil comes from and decades of mistreatment by western nations (backing brutal dictators/stooges, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, invading nations on shoddy grounds or simply 'in the national interest' (Suez)) has utterly alienated the Arab street from the west? That's not to say Arabs hate the west either. It may shock a lot of people to realise that they want all the things we have: TVs, iPhones, the internet, nice cars, good food, etc. Perhaps if we treated that part of the world with parity of esteem rather than viewing the region as 'peoples we must exert control over' we might foster better relations with them.
Oil price, Israel, nothing else.CameronPoe wrote:
Why would Americans be worried what takes its place? Is America a militarily weak nation bordering Egypt or something?? Are Americans averse to self determination and 'power to the people' in the context of a nation of desperate underemployed, underfed subjects of a kleptocrat, just looking for some bread and a job? Or is the real reason that they don't want true Arab sentiment electing leaders because the middle east is where a large percentage of the world's oil comes from and decades of mistreatment by western nations (backing brutal dictators/stooges, overthrowing democratically elected leaders, invading nations on shoddy grounds or simply 'in the national interest' (Suez)) has utterly alienated the Arab street from the west? That's not to say Arabs hate the west either. It may shock a lot of people to realise that they want all the things we have: TVs, iPhones, the internet, nice cars, good food, etc. Perhaps if we treated that part of the world with parity of esteem rather than viewing the region as 'peoples we must exert control over' we might foster better relations with them.Turquoise wrote:
Personally, I've seen that most Americans I know take a stance similar to my own in that they support the revolts, but they worry what government will take Mubarak's place.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-03 17:30:45)
Fuck Israel
Why on earth would the average American concern themselves with international politics? I can't think of a worse form of mental masturbation.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I think you're right. When I spent a summer in Wisconsin back in 1999 a man once asked me if I was 'getting the train back to Ireland'. Americans do take notice, as do citizens of any nation, when the price of food, petrol or life in general goes up. Will developments in Egypt affect those? In all honesty, probably not.lowing wrote:
Well I think Turquoise spoke out of turn. Truth is, most Americans don't give a flying fuck what happens to Egypt, as long as whatever happens does not cost us at the gas pump or force longer lines at airport security. Indeed the vast majority of Americans last week, had never heard the name Hosni Mubarak, much like the vast majority of us never heard of Osama Bin Laden before 911. We are talking about a nation of citizens so self absorbed and stupid that a significant percentage of us has no idea what the significance of DEC 7th 41 is, or what the 3 branches of our govt. are.
/aside: I'm not insinuating all Americans are as ill-informed as the man who asked me about the train.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2011-02-03 15:02:35)
and what did you tell Warman's dad?CameronPoe wrote:
I think you're right. When I spent a summer in Wisconsin back in 1999 a man once asked me if I was 'getting the train back to Ireland'...
Cam,in America today....It would probably be a safe assumptionCameronPoe wrote:
I think you're right. When I spent a summer in Wisconsin back in 1999 a man once asked me if I was 'getting the train back to Ireland'. Americans do take notice, as do citizens of any nation, when the price of food, petrol or life in general goes up. Will developments in Egypt affect those? In all honesty, probably not.lowing wrote:
Well I think Turquoise spoke out of turn. Truth is, most Americans don't give a flying fuck what happens to Egypt, as long as whatever happens does not cost us at the gas pump or force longer lines at airport security. Indeed the vast majority of Americans last week, had never heard the name Hosni Mubarak, much like the vast majority of us never heard of Osama Bin Laden before 911. We are talking about a nation of citizens so self absorbed and stupid that a significant percentage of us has no idea what the significance of DEC 7th 41 is, or what the 3 branches of our govt. are.
/aside: I'm not insinuating all Americans are as ill-informed as the man who asked me about the train.
Agreed. I'm ashamed of it.lowing wrote:
Cam,in America today....It would probably be a safe assumptionCameronPoe wrote:
I think you're right. When I spent a summer in Wisconsin back in 1999 a man once asked me if I was 'getting the train back to Ireland'. Americans do take notice, as do citizens of any nation, when the price of food, petrol or life in general goes up. Will developments in Egypt affect those? In all honesty, probably not.lowing wrote:
Well I think Turquoise spoke out of turn. Truth is, most Americans don't give a flying fuck what happens to Egypt, as long as whatever happens does not cost us at the gas pump or force longer lines at airport security. Indeed the vast majority of Americans last week, had never heard the name Hosni Mubarak, much like the vast majority of us never heard of Osama Bin Laden before 911. We are talking about a nation of citizens so self absorbed and stupid that a significant percentage of us has no idea what the significance of DEC 7th 41 is, or what the 3 branches of our govt. are.
/aside: I'm not insinuating all Americans are as ill-informed as the man who asked me about the train.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I thought I'd poke my head in here and see what you guys are saying
How come no one is stating the obvious... that we are witnessing the end of American empire.
You can draw a direct comparison with the USSR, the Afghanistan war and the fall of the Berlin wall.
Even the rhetoric about demonstrations for democracy is the same. I have to laugh that there are probably radical Islamic groups now using the rhetoric of democratic change to oust government leaders friendly to the US. The PR war over this one should prove interesting.
Anyway here's a time line comparison.
USSR
Afghanistan 1979 to 1988 approx 10 years,
fall of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin wall November 1989
USA
Afghanistan war 2001 to present: Iraq war 2003 to present, approximately 10 years.
Fall of the American empire 2011?
Both countries suffered economic downturns and their spending to support empire became unsustainable. Fact is the US doesn't have the money to fight... at least not without causing massive hardship in the US and part of that problem is that the US is maintaining a presence abroad so that US corporations can make money. But, most of these corporations no longer pay tax here on money made abroad thanks to "globalization" ... so that really just leaves the middle class to pay the bill for maintaining the empire (and the welfare state).... fact is this model is no longer sustainable and simply cutting domestic spending won't be enough to save us.
Next all we need is the IMF or world bank to come in a give the US loans in return for hefty concessions like they got out of the USSR.
Anyway, I wonder who will fill the voids left by these empires.... my guess is the large corporations.
How come no one is stating the obvious... that we are witnessing the end of American empire.
You can draw a direct comparison with the USSR, the Afghanistan war and the fall of the Berlin wall.
Even the rhetoric about demonstrations for democracy is the same. I have to laugh that there are probably radical Islamic groups now using the rhetoric of democratic change to oust government leaders friendly to the US. The PR war over this one should prove interesting.
Anyway here's a time line comparison.
USSR
Afghanistan 1979 to 1988 approx 10 years,
fall of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin wall November 1989
USA
Afghanistan war 2001 to present: Iraq war 2003 to present, approximately 10 years.
Fall of the American empire 2011?
Both countries suffered economic downturns and their spending to support empire became unsustainable. Fact is the US doesn't have the money to fight... at least not without causing massive hardship in the US and part of that problem is that the US is maintaining a presence abroad so that US corporations can make money. But, most of these corporations no longer pay tax here on money made abroad thanks to "globalization" ... so that really just leaves the middle class to pay the bill for maintaining the empire (and the welfare state).... fact is this model is no longer sustainable and simply cutting domestic spending won't be enough to save us.
Next all we need is the IMF or world bank to come in a give the US loans in return for hefty concessions like they got out of the USSR.
Anyway, I wonder who will fill the voids left by these empires.... my guess is the large corporations.
Thanks for returning and saying absolutely nothing that is correct.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
They don't, all they concern themselves with is, the latest Iphone.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why on earth would the average American concern themselves with international politics? I can't think of a worse form of mental masturbation.
As am IDBBrinson1 wrote:
Agreed. I'm ashamed of it.lowing wrote:
Cam,in America today....It would probably be a safe assumptionCameronPoe wrote:
I think you're right. When I spent a summer in Wisconsin back in 1999 a man once asked me if I was 'getting the train back to Ireland'. Americans do take notice, as do citizens of any nation, when the price of food, petrol or life in general goes up. Will developments in Egypt affect those? In all honesty, probably not.
/aside: I'm not insinuating all Americans are as ill-informed as the man who asked me about the train.
Who gives a shit? Does their opinion on what should happen in Egypt matter? Not in the slightest. Can they affect any change whatseover? No. Does it have any impact on their life? Maybe in a remote indirect manner.lowing wrote:
They don't, all they concern themselves with is, the latest Iphone.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why on earth would the average American concern themselves with international politics? I can't think of a worse form of mental masturbation.
Pat yourself on the back all you want because you consider yourself enlightened. The knowledge you think you possess is about as useful as my ability to compute On Base Percentage.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in SoCal, we have significant middle-east, north-african, asia-minor residents. I am friends with Palestinians, Armenians, Iraqi, Iranians, Israelites, etc. So, figures of note come into conversation quite often.
Thanks for nothing... go stick you head back in the sand for six months and then give me a call to tell me what you see.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for returning and saying absolutely nothing that is correct.
Money equals power, no money equals no power. What the USSR did with its military, the US did with its economy. And to think a bunch of greedy bankers and wall streeters did what wars and the USSR and China couldn't do... its sad.
Its over... finished... now its only a matter of how far we will fall.
Shouldn't you be masturbating to Krugman's column?Diesel_dyk wrote:
Thanks for nothing... go stick you head back in the sand for six months and then give me a call to tell me what you see.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for returning and saying absolutely nothing that is correct.
Money equals power, no money equals no power. What the USSR did with its military, the US did with its economy. And to think a bunch of greedy bankers and wall streeters did what wars and the USSR and China couldn't do... its sad.
Its over... finished... now its only a matter of how far we will fall.
If you haven't noticed, the recession is essentially over and we've had growth for the past six months. The economy had a hiccup, it did not fall off a cliff. It's normal.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Doesn't mean shit while your still amassing debt.JohnG@lt wrote:
If you haven't noticed, the recession is essentially over and we've had growth for the past six months. The economy had a hiccup, it did not fall off a cliff. It's normal.
The debt is absolutely an issue but it's not nearly as debilitating (at this point) as what some other countries have racked up on a per capita basis.AussieReaper wrote:
Doesn't mean shit while your still amassing debt.JohnG@lt wrote:
If you haven't noticed, the recession is essentially over and we've had growth for the past six months. The economy had a hiccup, it did not fall off a cliff. It's normal.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
no one gives a shit, thought I said that. nope our opinions don't matter either, nope can't affect change either, might have an impact in a remote indirect manner.( thought I said that as well)JohnG@lt wrote:
Who gives a shit? Does their opinion on what should happen in Egypt matter? Not in the slightest. Can they affect any change whatseover? No. Does it have any impact on their life? Maybe in a remote indirect manner.lowing wrote:
They don't, all they concern themselves with is, the latest Iphone.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why on earth would the average American concern themselves with international politics? I can't think of a worse form of mental masturbation.
Pat yourself on the back all you want because you consider yourself enlightened. The knowledge you think you possess is about as useful as my ability to compute On Base Percentage.
I'm not patting myself on my back, I never heard of Hosni Mubarak until last week either. Still it does not take away from the fact that we are a nation of dumb fucks, and getting dumber.
Last edited by lowing (2011-02-03 17:11:40)
I'm fairly certain the same could be said of every country in the world. The average worker bee concerns himself with what matters to him. Nothing more.lowing wrote:
no one gives a shit, thought I said that. nope our opinions don't matter either, nope can't affect change either, might have an impact in a remote indirect manner.( thought I said that as well)JohnG@lt wrote:
Who gives a shit? Does their opinion on what should happen in Egypt matter? Not in the slightest. Can they affect any change whatseover? No. Does it have any impact on their life? Maybe in a remote indirect manner.lowing wrote:
They don't, all they concern themselves with is, the latest Iphone.
Pat yourself on the back all you want because you consider yourself enlightened. The knowledge you think you possess is about as useful as my ability to compute On Base Percentage.
I'm not patting myself on my back, I never heard of Hosni Mubarak until last week either. Still it does not take away from the fact that we are a nation of dumb fucks.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Seriously?lowing wrote:
I never heard of Hosni Mubarak until last week either.
lowing wrote:
I never heard of Hosni Mubarak until last week either.
Because it affects America?JohnG@lt wrote:
Why on earth would the average American concern themselves with international politics? I can't think of a worse form of mental masturbation.
You don't care how your tax dollars get spent? OK...lowing wrote:
I never heard of Hosni Mubarak until last week either.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-03 17:31:43)
Fuck Israel
what matters to me? An uprising in the most populous Arab nation?JohnG@lt wrote:
I'm fairly certain the same could be said of every country in the world. The average worker bee concerns himself with what matters to him. Nothing more.
i'm a salaried worker bee, and what was true about me 20 years ago is not so true today. Today's technology has shrunk the world, and today i have more time and interest in exploring it. Yesterday (when Mubarak took power) i think news stories were researched better and facts checked better and all this was concisely summed up and printed and delivered to your doorstep for your perusal if you weren't more interested in the shenanigans of Beetle Baily and Sgt. Snorkel that day.
Todays' news is live, and with the advent of the round the clock coverage, it's loud and incessant and always in your face. it doesn't mean it's not of interest, it only means it's more accessible. with that accessibility and the fact that technology has improved both the speed at which it's delivered and the quality of it's timeliness - when there are 234 channels of shit on the TV to choose from, one can be assured that 'the scoop' means as much as it did when the news was still three days removed from being fish wrap.
listen up American members of bf2s, i'm American and you do not speak for me. and you members from other countries? take your preconceptions about America and smoke them.
we don't know how the crisis in Egypt may play out, but it is live history, something you spoiled rotten punks take for granted, being able to see it happen in real time. if you think everyone doesn't value the immediacy of it all, go fuck yourself.
I said the average worker bee. That's not inclusive of everyone on the planet.burnzz wrote:
what matters to me? An uprising in the most populous Arab nation?JohnG@lt wrote:
I'm fairly certain the same could be said of every country in the world. The average worker bee concerns himself with what matters to him. Nothing more.
i'm a salaried worker bee, and what was true about me 20 years ago is not so true today. Today's technology has shrunk the world, and today i have more time and interest in exploring it. Yesterday (when Mubarak took power) i think news stories were researched better and facts checked better and all this was concisely summed up and printed and delivered to your doorstep for your perusal if you weren't more interested in the shenanigans of Beetle Baily and Sgt. Snorkel that day.
Todays' news is live, and with the advent of the round the clock coverage, it's loud and incessant and always in your face. it doesn't mean it's not of interest, it only means it's more accessible. with that accessibility and the fact that technology has improved both the speed at which it's delivered and the quality of it's timeliness - when there are 234 channels of shit on the TV to choose from, one can be assured that 'the scoop' means as much as it did when the news was still three days removed from being fish wrap.
listen up American members of bf2s, i'm American and you do not speak for me. and you members from other countries? take your preconceptions about America and smoke them.
we don't know how the crisis in Egypt may play out, but it is live history, something you spoiled rotten punks take for granted, being able to see it happen in real time. if you think everyone doesn't value the immediacy of it all, go fuck yourself.
Personally, I'm completely turned off by the 24/7 news coverage cycle. It's too much non-relevant information to sift through for the rare nugget of goodness. My entire rant earlier in this thread was simply against the 'Americans r dum becuz they dont care' line of thinking. Being up to date on events in Egypt is about as relevant as my near encyclopedic knowledge of WWII or the US Civil War i.e. not very.
This line of thinking didn't come out of nowhere. I was reading perhaps my hundredth book on WWII and it became apparent to me that it was rather useless knowledge. It's not like I could sit there and have a conversation with my friends about Heinz Guderian or Marshal Mannerheim without them going 'uhh'. Unless I plan on writing a history textbook someday, the possible applications for this knowledge I possess is ridiculously small. I would never browbeat someone because they weren't up to snuff on panzer tactics and the same should honestly apply to current events.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I agree to an extent. The problem arises when John Doe from Bumblefuck USA decides to start lecturing YOU on panzer tactics when he doesn't even know what the Schefflin plan is. Too many people decide to start throwing their two cents in when they do not have a single fucking clue what they are talking about.JohnG@lt wrote:
I said the average worker bee. That's not inclusive of everyone on the planet.burnzz wrote:
what matters to me? An uprising in the most populous Arab nation?JohnG@lt wrote:
I'm fairly certain the same could be said of every country in the world. The average worker bee concerns himself with what matters to him. Nothing more.
i'm a salaried worker bee, and what was true about me 20 years ago is not so true today. Today's technology has shrunk the world, and today i have more time and interest in exploring it. Yesterday (when Mubarak took power) i think news stories were researched better and facts checked better and all this was concisely summed up and printed and delivered to your doorstep for your perusal if you weren't more interested in the shenanigans of Beetle Baily and Sgt. Snorkel that day.
Todays' news is live, and with the advent of the round the clock coverage, it's loud and incessant and always in your face. it doesn't mean it's not of interest, it only means it's more accessible. with that accessibility and the fact that technology has improved both the speed at which it's delivered and the quality of it's timeliness - when there are 234 channels of shit on the TV to choose from, one can be assured that 'the scoop' means as much as it did when the news was still three days removed from being fish wrap.
listen up American members of bf2s, i'm American and you do not speak for me. and you members from other countries? take your preconceptions about America and smoke them.
we don't know how the crisis in Egypt may play out, but it is live history, something you spoiled rotten punks take for granted, being able to see it happen in real time. if you think everyone doesn't value the immediacy of it all, go fuck yourself.
Personally, I'm completely turned off by the 24/7 news coverage cycle. It's too much non-relevant information to sift through for the rare nugget of goodness. My entire rant earlier in this thread was simply against the 'Americans r dum becuz they dont care' line of thinking. Being up to date on events in Egypt is about as relevant as my near encyclopedic knowledge of WWII or the US Civil War i.e. not very.
This line of thinking didn't come out of nowhere. I was reading perhaps my hundredth book on WWII and it became apparent to me that it was rather useless knowledge. It's not like I could sit there and have a conversation with my friends about Heinz Guderian or Marshal Mannerheim without them going 'uhh'. Unless I plan on writing a history textbook someday, the possible applications for this knowledge I possess is ridiculously small. I would never browbeat someone because they weren't up to snuff on panzer tactics and the same should honestly apply to current events.