Why would your first reaction be to punch? You must be really wound up tight!cpt.fass1 wrote:
Probably, have you ever been surprised out of your sleep before?
Usually you're not rational, and I'll be the first to say I've actually punched my girlfriend because of that before.
Trying to scare me out of my sleep if was a first reaction, it wasn't a "Hey wake up" it was a scream to get me up.SenorToenails wrote:
Why would your first reaction be to punch? You must be really wound up tight!cpt.fass1 wrote:
Probably, have you ever been surprised out of your sleep before?
Usually you're not rational, and I'll be the first to say I've actually punched my girlfriend because of that before.
I guess...you were there, I wasn't. But I have been shocked out of sleep before, and my first reaction is almost always to get up and out of bed.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Trying to scare me out of my sleep if was a first reaction, it wasn't a "Hey wake up" it was a scream to get me up.SenorToenails wrote:
Why would your first reaction be to punch? You must be really wound up tight!cpt.fass1 wrote:
Probably, have you ever been surprised out of your sleep before?
Usually you're not rational, and I'll be the first to say I've actually punched my girlfriend because of that before.
Remember that clip with the black kid getting interviewed and the guy pops out of the trashcan to scare him? That guy's first reaction was a right hook to the guy in the trash can. lol... He'd make a good boxer.
Nah... I made myself watch that again. From the video you can clearly tell it was a golf club. The man was in a defensive position not an offensive one and appeared to be trying to figure out what to do -he was never afforded the chance to surrender. No 'drop it' or 'on the ground' .. Just a few dudes yelling 'police search warrent' at different times so his sleepy ass probably couldn't even tell what they were saying. No, His ass was executed.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2011-01-21 13:12:12)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I wonder hog long it will be before this trigger happy prick finds an excuse to kill again...
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I'm sorta in two minds about it. On the one hand, the guy was 'armed'. However he wasn't an instant danger to the cops, and they didn't give him a chance to drop the club.
Yes, he had what appeared to be a 3 wood. Can be lethal if you aren't wearing a Kevlar helmet. The druggie did not move toward super cop at all. And hell, there wasn't enough room for him to do a swing of any force.ghettoperson wrote:
I'm sorta in two minds about it. On the one hand, the guy was 'armed'. However he wasn't an instant danger to the cops, and they didn't give him a chance to drop the club.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
There wasn't even time to establish hostile intent before he was shot. He wasn't moving AT the officers, he was moving laterally, out from a room and into the hallway to see what the fuck is up.
I don't care if they announced police when they knocked the door in, as stated previously it would be very easy for any burglars to yell that as they enter to confuse the hell out of people...once the door was down, at the same time the guy was running out, they should have been yelling "POLICE! GET DOWN!", or something to that effect, at the top of their lungs.
They didn't. They fucking shot him like 4 times, almost instantly. I don't care if our nanny state gov't has declared a pencil to be a potentially deadly weapon, leave the Rooster Cogburn shit in the movies and give someone a chance to NOT be killed before you unload, Mr. Officer of the "Peace".
For every raid that encounters heavily armed resistance (as in shots fired at officers, not just the presence of arms), I'm sure there are probably 50 that don't. Especially in some jerkwater district like this. Even if there are armed meth dealers being dealt with routinely, I'm sure most of them, even if in posession of guns, would probably not go out shooting in a blaze of glory if given the chance.
This shoot-first mentality is scary to me, and seems to be on the rise, and if it doesn't bother you in the least as a citizen, then I question your values as a free thinking individual.
I don't care if they announced police when they knocked the door in, as stated previously it would be very easy for any burglars to yell that as they enter to confuse the hell out of people...once the door was down, at the same time the guy was running out, they should have been yelling "POLICE! GET DOWN!", or something to that effect, at the top of their lungs.
They didn't. They fucking shot him like 4 times, almost instantly. I don't care if our nanny state gov't has declared a pencil to be a potentially deadly weapon, leave the Rooster Cogburn shit in the movies and give someone a chance to NOT be killed before you unload, Mr. Officer of the "Peace".
For every raid that encounters heavily armed resistance (as in shots fired at officers, not just the presence of arms), I'm sure there are probably 50 that don't. Especially in some jerkwater district like this. Even if there are armed meth dealers being dealt with routinely, I'm sure most of them, even if in posession of guns, would probably not go out shooting in a blaze of glory if given the chance.
This shoot-first mentality is scary to me, and seems to be on the rise, and if it doesn't bother you in the least as a citizen, then I question your values as a free thinking individual.
What's almost more troubling is it looks like this psycho is going to get away with murder.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Jesus christ, give it a rest with the "running around the corner with a golf club." The guy came around the corner, and stopped. He wasn't lunging, he wasn't running towards the shooter, and he was across the god damned room. With a golf club.Spearhead wrote:
You are acting as if they shot him in cold blood.tuckergustav wrote:
yeah, as they kicked the door in and shot him. He may have heard them sneaking around the house and was coming to investigate.
For christs sake, he came running around the corner with a golf club. Do that to any other cop and I guarantee they will shoot you. All I am saying is that the shooting itself, regardless of the circumstances surrounding it, seems to be justified.
Being a police officer is a dangerous job not because officers can shoot whoever the hell they want in a split-second reaction, but because they have to ascertain if people present an immediate and serious danger to others before they're allowed to use lethal force. The officer clearly failed to do so.
This isn't just a "shit happens" kind of deal. People are accountable for their mistakes, and just like doctors, engineers, and a whole host of other licensed professionals, mistakes do and must have consequences. Especially when those mistakes cost lives.
That's exactly what that was.Spearhead wrote:
You are acting as if they shot him in cold blood.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
This.RAIMIUS wrote:
The shooting itself would be justified under most use of force laws/policies. The cop had a split-second to react to a guy with a golf club raised in a threatening manner. An angry guy with a golf club raised at you meets a "reasonable fear of death or grevious bodily injury" IMO. One good whack to the head or neck... I've done shoothouse training, and that guy meets the generic requirements to be considered a threat. Now, go by the cop's assertion that he thought it might have been a sword. That would make it a 100% clear-cut shooting, if it were so. The cop had a pretty decent case even if he was certain it was a golf club.cpt.fass1 wrote:
He came running around the corner of HIS HOME with a golf club. They did murder him in cold blood, and that Police officer who's already killed someone should be brought to justice.Spearhead wrote:
You are acting as if they shot him in cold blood.
For christs sake, he came running around the corner with a golf club. Do that to any other cop and I guarantee they will shoot you. All I am saying is that the shooting itself, regardless of the circumstances surrounding it, seems to be justified.
They Didn't even have the Search Warrent to be in the house so it was breaking and entering.
As to the planning:
It sounds like one big CF. If there is any action taken against the PD, this is where I would look. Leaving the warrant was stupid, although it might still be legal. Poor, last minute planning should probably result in administrative action.
How is he supposed to know its the police breaking down his door?Spearhead wrote:
Honestly I'm surprised at how outraged some of you guys seem to be. I consider myself pretty liberal, I hate power abusing asshole cops as much as anyone else. Regardless of how incompetent they were (forgetting the warrant, etc) the simple fact here is that this guy came running around the corner with a golf club. I would expect the exact same to happen 90 % of the time anyone else wakes up at 4 am, hear's the cops busting down the front door and thinks "Hey, I'll grab the first thing I see and run up to them"..cpt.fass1 wrote:
It's not cops doing this it's people. They're just as bad if not worse then other criminals. Then this is going to a civil suit where the people are going to win and it's going to cost us as a people a couple hundred thousand to a million. The war on drugs is the most costly thing to a civilized people.
Half the people on this forum would have gone for a firearm if they'd heard an unknown person breaking into their house in the middle of the night.
If the Police stupidly get themselves into a situation where they risk having to take a life then they should be liable.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-01-22 00:54:58)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
My problem is that the officer didn't give the victim time to do anything. Opened the door and Bang! he's dead. Also, I wonder if the briefing before the raid spoke of possible weapons at the residence? Or if the persons living at the residence had history of violence towards police or others. I'll be honest and say I have read many of these posts. So my questions may already have answers.
Doesn't matter, breaking into someone's house unannounced in the middle of the night is a recipe for a sticky ending for someone.I wonder if the briefing before the raid spoke of possible weapons at the residence? Or if the persons living at the residence had history of violence towards police or others.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
What if the police are informed that the occupants may have weapons or have a history of violence towards police? Don't you think that may have an effect on the situation? I believe the cop was wrong, but they may have all believed they were in grave danger by just going in.
For Police to put themselves in a situation where they are going to be confronting someone who in all likelihood will be armed, confused, just woken up and be unaware that they are police officers is thoroughly stupid, especially over low-level drug dealing, and even worse if the person has a history of violence.
The thing is, the Police like to get themselves into this sort of situation so they can justify their danger money and all the fancy weapons they can buy, and many of them like to play the tough guy taking life or death decisions in a split second.
The bottom line is they risked their lives, the lives of the public and the suspect - who they ended up killing - because they wanted to be sure of getting a low level drug collar. They need to stop playing Rambo, stop taking the 'roids and get some perspective.
The thing is, the Police like to get themselves into this sort of situation so they can justify their danger money and all the fancy weapons they can buy, and many of them like to play the tough guy taking life or death decisions in a split second.
The bottom line is they risked their lives, the lives of the public and the suspect - who they ended up killing - because they wanted to be sure of getting a low level drug collar. They need to stop playing Rambo, stop taking the 'roids and get some perspective.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Should that be the case, then it would be just another egregious error on their part. What kind of police force would storm a house occupied by armed and dangerous individuals at 4 AM over suspicion of small-time drug dealing? It seems stupid enough to opt for storming the guy in his home to keep him from destroying evidence, rather than apprehending him outside and away from the evidence they're worried that he'll destroy.CC-Marley wrote:
What if the police are informed that the occupants may have weapons or have a history of violence towards police? Don't you think that may have an effect on the situation? I believe the cop was wrong, but they may have all believed they were in grave danger by just going in.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/22/ny … latestnews
Come on... Yet another SWAT fuck up... Over a low level druggie. This time by New York's finest.
Come on... Yet another SWAT fuck up... Over a low level druggie. This time by New York's finest.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I love how you fucks think that video in the OP is what actually happened.
Clues to the Police incompetency:
A: Forgot Warrant
B: Bad Planning for raid
C: Illegal Warrant ( Warrant for "no knock" raid issued on grounds a person was living in house who the police admitted they knew no longer resided there)
Clearly a "no knock" raid puts people in more danger, clearly there wasn't a need for it because they knew the "flusher" was no longer there, clearly if you don't have a warrant in hand you can't expect people to "take your word for it" thus you can't execute said warrant.
If I was the Judge that issued that warrant I would be beside myself with anger and much less likely to issue these ass-clowns another warrant.
A: Forgot Warrant
B: Bad Planning for raid
C: Illegal Warrant ( Warrant for "no knock" raid issued on grounds a person was living in house who the police admitted they knew no longer resided there)
Clearly a "no knock" raid puts people in more danger, clearly there wasn't a need for it because they knew the "flusher" was no longer there, clearly if you don't have a warrant in hand you can't expect people to "take your word for it" thus you can't execute said warrant.
If I was the Judge that issued that warrant I would be beside myself with anger and much less likely to issue these ass-clowns another warrant.
So what happened then?S3v3N wrote:
I love how you fucks think that video in the OP is what actually happened.
Ask the Swat Team and the guy that is dead.CC-Marley wrote:
So what happened then?S3v3N wrote:
I love how you fucks think that video in the OP is what actually happened.
They'll tell you.
Yeah it was fancy editing that tells the story. The Swat team will tell you he had a gun and was shotting at them. The guy who's dead will tell you that he was reading the bible and walking out of his room.S3v3N wrote:
Ask the Swat Team and the guy that is dead.CC-Marley wrote:
So what happened then?S3v3N wrote:
I love how you fucks think that video in the OP is what actually happened.
They'll tell you.