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2011-01-10 21:41:15
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Not sure how dilbert can only look at what was done and not why.  Japan attacked the US and wouldn't surrender, not like the US just woke up one morning and decided nuking Japan would be cool.
Japan was surrounded, cut off, militarily defeated and on the point of surrender, the USAF could bomb them with impunity - there was simply no need to nuke them.

And it really isn't as simple as 'Japan attacked the US', there's a long history for decades before that.
No more than 'Bin Laden did 9/11 cuz he is a crazy moozlum LOLOLOLOL'.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-01-10 21:42:11)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-10 21:55:58
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6598|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Dilbert_X wrote:

the USAF could bomb them with impunity - there was simply no need to nuke them.
firebombing those cities would have yielded similiar results.  why waste the gas and munitions sending dozens of planes when one works oh so well?

Last edited by Reciprocity (2011-01-10 21:56:25)

2011-01-10 22:09:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

the USAF could bomb them with impunity - there was simply no need to nuke them.
firebombing those cities would have yielded similiar results.  why waste the gas and munitions sending dozens of planes when one works oh so well?
Actually, due to the particularly flammable materials of a lot of Japanese buildings at the time, firebombing would have killed far more people than the nukes did.

So, when looking at it from that perspective, nuking them was actually more merciful.
2011-01-10 22:23:06
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

the USAF could bomb them with impunity - there was simply no need to nuke them.
firebombing those cities would have yielded similiar results.  why waste the gas and munitions sending dozens of planes when one works oh so well?
Because, I dunno, the military targets could have been selectively targeted, instead of vapourising entire cities?

They were already defeated anyway, further bombing was superfluous.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-10 22:28:25
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6328|South Jersey
Why didn't they surrender within 48 hours of a city being decimated in 48 seconds? Nuking someone is not anything any human being wishes on another, but it is our history, we did it, its done with, they really didn't give us much other choice (IMO). Maybe from your point of view the United States is the epitome of all evil, but the rest of us try to make our lives better for our kids. Mess with the bull you get the horns, no? Do as I say, not as I do? In the end, I want a better tomorrow. At the same time, I realize that I'm a white, suburban born American. I like to think that life on Earth is much better with an American global superpower than one with countries, theoretically, as Japan that physically rapes and pillages for the betterment of their people? Tomato tomatoe i guess, or some weird southern hemisphere gravitational pull.
2011-01-10 22:38:53
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX
Why didn't they surrender within 48 hours of a city being decimated in 48 seconds?
Because its not that simple, they had a bureaucratic govt with an Emperor and 1940s communication technology - could the modern US govt do anything of that magnitude in 48 hours?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-10 22:41:37
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6328|South Jersey
Also I must add, how were we (Humans, Einstein, every single scientist with any involvement of the manhattan project) supposed to know that nuclear radiation would cause debilitating cancers well after the detonation? I mean for jesus titty fucking christ sakes, they had advertisements for doctors preferring certain brands of cigarettes and beers plastered all over piccadilly circus? Twas a different day and age, dilbert. Hindsight is 20/20.
2011-01-10 22:44:42
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6328|South Jersey
Everyone back then was listening in on everyone elses RADIO communications. We knew it, they knew. All sides tried all different types of cryptic comms.
2011-01-10 23:35:30
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6734

mcjagdflieger wrote:

Everyone back then was listening in on everyone elses RADIO communications. We knew it, they knew. All sides tried all different types of cryptic comms.
They didn't believe it. They probably thought it was US propaganda. Also don't forget the whole bushido thing.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2011-01-10 23:38:15
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6598|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Dilbert_X wrote:

Because, I dunno, the military targets could have been selectively targeted, instead of vapourising entire cities?

They were already defeated anyway, further bombing was superfluous.
selective targeting with heavy bombers? 

here's a WWII protip -don't build your factories and military installations around civilian populations and then bitch and cry when the shitstorm comes.
2011-01-10 23:41:25
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX

Reciprocity wrote:

selective targeting with heavy bombers?
Yes.
here's a WWII protip -don't build your factories and military installations around civilian populations and then bitch and cry when the shitstorm comes.
Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-01-10 23:42:04)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-10 23:45:02
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

selective targeting with heavy bombers?
Yes.
here's a WWII protip -don't build your factories and military installations around civilian populations and then bitch and cry when the shitstorm comes.
Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.
Well...  you do realize a lot of our fleet was out at sea during the attack, right?  It was fairly calculated to have just enough ships present for it to hurt us while at the same time having enough of them away that it wouldn't cripple us.

If we had simply moved all of our fleet out, then it would've been obvious that we knew about an impending attack, and the resulting damage might not have been enough to sufficiently anger the public.

Last edited by Turquoise (2011-01-10 23:45:44)

2011-01-10 23:46:26
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6734

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Because, I dunno, the military targets could have been selectively targeted, instead of vapourising entire cities?

They were already defeated anyway, further bombing was superfluous.
selective targeting with heavy bombers? 

here's a WWII protip -don't build your factories and military installations around civilian populations and then bitch and cry when the shitstorm comes.
Every man, woman and child was a soldier for the Empire of Japan. They taught kids at school how to strap bombs and run into tanks.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2011-01-10 23:48:18
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5491|Ventura, California

Turquoise wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

selective targeting with heavy bombers?
Yes.
here's a WWII protip -don't build your factories and military installations around civilian populations and then bitch and cry when the shitstorm comes.
Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.
Well...  you do realize a lot of our fleet was out at sea during the attack, right?  It was fairly calculated to have just enough ships present for it to hurt us while at the same time having enough of them away that it wouldn't cripple us.

If we had simply moved all of our fleet out, then it would've been obvious that we knew about an impending attack, and the resulting damage might not have been enough to sufficiently anger the public.
So now you're saying we let 3000 people die so we could go to war?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2011-01-10 23:49:11
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX

Sh1fty wrote:

So now you're saying we let 3000 people die so we could go to war?
Seems to be a bit of a habit.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-10 23:49:37
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6598|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Dilbert_X wrote:

[Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.
lol, no, don't sink our battleships!



aw, you sunkz our shipz




Cybargs wrote:

Every man, woman and child was a soldier for the Empire of Japan. They taught kids at school how to strap bombs and run into tanks.
no biggie, they were filing the paperwork and getting the signatures to surrender.  shit takes time, yo.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2011-01-10 23:52:01)

2011-01-10 23:51:38
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6734

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

[Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.
lol, no, don't sink our battleships!



aw, you sunkz our shipz
Lost of battleships led to the rise of carrier based naval combat.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2011-01-10 23:53:15
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6598|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Cybargs wrote:

Lost of battleships led to the rise of carrier based naval combat.
carriers were already the focus of naval combat.
2011-01-10 23:55:09
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6422|North Carolina

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

selective targeting with heavy bombers?
Yes.

Here's a better one, don't park you ships and planes in neat rows when you know an attack is coming.
Well...  you do realize a lot of our fleet was out at sea during the attack, right?  It was fairly calculated to have just enough ships present for it to hurt us while at the same time having enough of them away that it wouldn't cripple us.

If we had simply moved all of our fleet out, then it would've been obvious that we knew about an impending attack, and the resulting damage might not have been enough to sufficiently anger the public.
So now you're saying we let 3000 people die so we could go to war?
FDR essentially had to set up an attack for us to be willing to enter WW2.  Believe it or not, the Republicans were ardently anti-war back then, and the American public was mostly against entering WW2 in the beginning because of the state of the economy and relatively recent memories of WW1.

Through trade sanctions, we essentially forced Japan's hand.  When Pearl Harbor was attacked, it was more than a coincidence that we had a significant portion of our fleet out of the area.  I suppose some of Japan's leadership might have put this together at the time due to the wariness of some of them in attacking us, but ultimately, pride overtook their logic in moving to attack us.

So yes, it was a very calculated move with a high amount of collateral, but it was necessary.

In many ways, the world was a lot more brutal back then.
2011-01-11 00:02:14
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6328|South Jersey
Meh, just remembered specific quotations, in my personal library, from certain Japanese admirals that they "preferred the taste of Australian flesh" as opposed to other types of human flesh that didnt match their delicate pallets. I believe the author was an Edward Jablonski. Im done defending our immediate ending of the bloodiest conflict, and what was sure to be more, in human history. USA! USA! USA!

On topic, no matter what shit the entire rest of the world tries to come up with, I have no doubts that when pushed again, the United States will band together and absolutely fuck up whatever anyone tries to throw against us. We may have some incredible infighting going on right now, but we have the resources and resolve to match what any single entity can try to to combat us with. What we may have trouble with, however, is other nations unified against us. Oh nuclear MAD might be hard to recover from too, maybe why we have some conspiracy laden SEAL teams so close to Pakistani nuclear weapons? As if they fell into the wrong hands, we would just sit there and tremble about what the bad guys would do with them? The US will be a global superpower for at least the next century, and for anyone on our side, it will be an exciting 100 years at that.
2011-01-11 00:35:15
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6170|what

Dilbert_X wrote:

Why didn't they surrender within 48 hours of a city being decimated in 48 seconds?
Because its not that simple, they had a bureaucratic govt with an Emperor and 1940s communication technology - could the modern US govt do anything of that magnitude in 48 hours?
They also didn't know that the city had been wiped out.

It was silenced.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2011-01-11 00:38:42
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6123|eXtreme to the maX

mcjagdflieger wrote:

On topic, no matter what shit the entire rest of the world tries to come up with, I have no doubts that when pushed again, the United States will band together and absolutely fuck up whatever anyone tries to throw against us. We may have some incredible infighting going on right now, but we have the resources and resolve to match what any single entity can try to to combat us with. What we may have trouble with, however, is other nations unified against us. Oh nuclear MAD might be hard to recover from too, maybe why we have some conspiracy laden SEAL teams so close to Pakistani nuclear weapons? As if they fell into the wrong hands, we would just sit there and tremble about what the bad guys would do with them? The US will be a global superpower for at least the next century, and for anyone on our side, it will be an exciting 100 years at that.
Have fun fighting China.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2011-01-11 00:48:38
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6797|Great Brown North

Dilbert_X wrote:

mcjagdflieger wrote:

On topic, no matter what shit the entire rest of the world tries to come up with, I have no doubts that when pushed again, the United States will band together and absolutely fuck up whatever anyone tries to throw against us. We may have some incredible infighting going on right now, but we have the resources and resolve to match what any single entity can try to to combat us with. What we may have trouble with, however, is other nations unified against us. Oh nuclear MAD might be hard to recover from too, maybe why we have some conspiracy laden SEAL teams so close to Pakistani nuclear weapons? As if they fell into the wrong hands, we would just sit there and tremble about what the bad guys would do with them? The US will be a global superpower for at least the next century, and for anyone on our side, it will be an exciting 100 years at that.
Have fun fighting China.
USA! USA! USA!
2011-01-11 00:55:41
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6676|BC, Canada
lol
2011-01-11 00:57:58
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6328|South Jersey
You damn straight bitches...you think that a coastal industrious region such as china can take us on? So be it, we may not be able to beat them on their home soil, but I don't think the US will be invading mother fucking China any time soon. As was said before, they need us as much as we need them. That may change, but not any time soon. What would happen to China today, if they didn't have American materialism to prop them up? USA!

 

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