BF2S Forums Chinese Mock Up Stealth fighter

RDMC wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

War Man wrote:

By the time we end up in a war with China shifty, it'll be when we are at our weakest. If you thought we were at our weakest when the Korean War started think of something a billion times worse.

China historically has never been a warring nation outside it's own borders. It can't be fucked with conquering the world, they just want the $$$$$ and shits.

Well besides the little intermingle during the Korean War..

Asia belongs to Asians don't ya know. We don't want no gwai lo in our borders.

UnkleRukus wrote:

War Man wrote:

By the time we end up in a war with China shifty, it'll be when we are at our weakest. If you thought we were at our weakest when the Korean War started think of something a billion times worse.

If we had been weaker during the Korean War, Truman would have authorized MacArthur to use tactical nukes on the combined Chinese and NK forces.

China would be an irradiated shithole if MacArthur got what he wanted.

Cybargs wrote:

RDMC wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

China historically has never been a warring nation outside it's own borders. It can't be fucked with conquering the world, they just want the $$$$$ and shits.

Well besides the little intermingle during the Korean War..

Asia belongs to Asians don't ya know. We don't want no gwai lo in our borders.

We gonna be in Korea and Japan for quite some time, get used to it. Honestly I dont think that China would be able to handle being the sole superpower if they somehow found a way to defeat us.

I find it quite comical i mean, who would be controlling China now if we hadn't taken on Japan? People talk so much shit on us, but when push comes to shove, we are one of few countries that our people will surrender their citizenship to go fight for another country because it's the right thing to do.  Groups like the Flying Tigers and The Eagle Squadron---volunteers. I can see where we started to have a little too much influence in Chinas region for their comfort, but lets face it. USA is such a huge contributor to economic growth for China. Would it really benefit them to be our superior? Why can't we all just be friends?

Cybargs wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Well, the basic plot is China sends dozens of missiles to the US carrier group which is "Blind" and fucks it up amirite?

I like how the carrier has ALL it's planes on board until they start getting attacked and the Navy is just cruising in there rambo style. Shows you how intelligent the writer is.

It was a simulation done by the RAND corporation. No point in launching planes if they're gonna be out of range.

The article is retarded. Probably worst case scenario done by RAND or something but even that seems iffy. I feel PM mixed it up a little bit to get more of a punch.

Second off, carriers always have planes in the air, and when in an combat area there are even more planes in the air.

War with China goes like this. Cruise missiles are launched, after wards ballistic missiles are too, the idea is to have impacts at the same time. Defenses are completely saturated, we'll be lucky to knock down 5% of the missiles. Hopefully our planes get off the ground before impact, but that is very iffy. South Korea, Japan, Okinawa, Guam are all fucked, Taiwan will be lucky to have a grass airstrip still intact. Depending on how big this is gonna get, the PRC may strike Australia and South East Asia too(think Thailand, Vietnam, etc). Casualties will be absolutely absurd. Its kind of like a Pearl Harbor we saw coming and decided to do nothing about.

Hopefully, the George Washington and its battle group are not sitting in home port in Japan, if so they are out of the war, not sunk, but not doing any fighting for a couple months either. Chinese subs are shitty, still really shitty, they are getting better, buts they are about equal to the Russians in the '70s. Our ASW tactics have suffered a lot since the end of the cold war so it could be interesting.

Assuming the GW and its battle group aren't sitting in port, they will get it, though no where near as bad as the article portrays. The Aegis ships are truly amazing, and assuming they didn't blow all their missiles attempting to defend the islands in the opening attack, and assuming if they did they have reloaded, the battle group is pretty safe. We spent the 70's and 80's preparing for the Russians to launch on battle groups in the North Atlantic, so we are pretty good at that. The wild card is the new DF-21 (kind of confused why people went crazy over that a couple months back, its been known about for years). That could make things interesting as well, the new SM-3 is designed to knock out missiles like that so we'll see how that works.

Second wave, a few hours after the opening salvo of missiles. Chinese planes will come and annihilate the remaining military infrastructure in Taiwan. South Korea and Japan will be hit again. Guam can possibly be hit by plane launched cruise missiles. There are two ways to do this. The Chinese can either send their shitty old planes out first (think Mig21), identifying where allied units are but taking massive casualties, OR leave those for coastal defense and send out the best of the best, have surprise(too an extent, there is enough radar in that area that you will never knock it all out), and possibly do more damage but risk losing their best planes.

That was all in the opening hours, things quite down after wards. Both sides assess damage (the Chinese are going to take astronomical casualties in that second wave, almost as high as the Allies did in the first wave. (Notice I am referring to the US, SK, Japanese, ROC, Aussie, and all the other forces as Allies, its easier than typing them all out, I'll refer to the ChiComs as PRC from now on to keep things clear.) For the next couple days there will be raids by both sides, assuming this was not a foreseeable event all parties will attempt to move more forces into the area but no big actions. The PRC can not take Taiwan, they may attempt to head into South East Asia though, knock out Vietnam, Thailand.

Back stepping a little bit both sides will launch cyber attacks on the other. I think its assumed that the Allies would take massive hits on this, and they would. Here is another one of the great variables in this. There are two ways to play this, regional war, and global war, we're going to assume this is global, regional is an iffy thing. The PRC could go regional, and just strike Taiwanese and US facilities. This is a massive risk, if they do not completely annihilate the targeted facilities, complete their objectives, and sue for peace within 72 hours at most, they are fucked. That is why we are looking at global conflict.

OK. Back to the cyber war. Most people underestimate the capabilities of the USCYBERCOM and the NSA. For some reason, there is not much talk about how we use cyber warfare all the time, only how the Russians and the PRC does. We are the best, by far. The question is the use of it. In the opening hours, the PRC will strike and strike hard at both civilian and military, we will take massive hits to really critical systems. Our power grid, water supply, gas and oil supply, telecommunications, major factories, all will be damaged or destroyed from the inside. Most will be back up and running within a couple weeks at most, but some things will take much, much longer to repair. Military infrastructure will be damaged too, communication, base infrastructure, etc. Much harder to damage these, but it can be done.

Another great variable. Space. Both sides have the capability to knock down all of the others satellites, rendering them deaf, blind, and partly dumb. I actually expect these to be left alone, both sides would suffer more from losing their satellites compared to the advantage gained from shooting down the other sides. It sounds absurd.

So after the lull in the fighting things heat up again. A couple more carrier battle groups and more reinforcements from the states. This is when I see things heating back up again. The allies are going to attempt to push back into the South China Sea and especially the East China Sea as well as providing reinforcements for the Thailanders and Vietnamese. This is when both sides are truly going to go head to head. I expect carrier groups coming in from the South, from the Persian Gulf area. These will come in near Malaysia and stick to the west coast of the Philippines so they are under land based air cover. A couple more groups will come up the east coast of the Philippines from the west coast of the US also heading for Taiwan. The whole idea is to get so many planes, ships, subs and AA in the area that you can overwhelm all defenses. While this is going on expect air strikes from Japan and other countries onto the mainland of China, sapping defenders away from the area around Taiwan and destroying the infrastructure required. The 4 converted Ohio class SSGN's we're designed for this situation, with 154 Tomahawk missiles each they more than equal the strike capability of an entire carrier battle group by themselves. These will probably be used to strike naval bases and especially Hainan island.

This is where America's cyber capability comes into focus. We are unparalleled in our offensive capabilities and very likely we will be able to strike first. The key is to knock out the remaining forces designed to destroy carrier battle groups, herein lies the problem. There is just too much to knock out. Our first strike will knock out some and the PRC will respond. The DF-21 is the wild card and I really doubt we will be able to knock them all down. They wont sink carriers, but they could sink other ships and they will sink some. Cruise missiles will also take their toll. The PLA has been planning for this for decades so they are going to give some nasty hits. There will be no clear winner in this. Both sides will be fucked up, the PRC will be stopped cold and the allies will be hurting for a long time. I doubt there will be another offensive operation for another year or so until both sides have geared up and taken a war footing. Its another drawn out war and the winner really depends on what the original intentions we're of the PRC.




So obviously I played the PRC as the aggressor in this scenario. I see them as being the aggressor, at least on the military front. The Chinese have a very, very nationalistic people at the moment. It's by design of their government and with a population of 1.3 Bil and counting, you need to keep the people happy. There will be a leadership transition in 2012 and that will be one of two main factors that decides whether or not the bullets fly eventually. If a hardliner takes over, things could become interesting, if not, we should be fine. Secondly, the economy. There are A LOT of unresolved MAJOR issues with the economy of the PRC, especially oil supply. If their economy tanks, the people will get angry, and the government will need to direct that outside or almost certainly be violently thrown out of office.

An extremely basic way to look at the political situation in the PRC is this: There are two camps, reformers comprising mostly of the younger generation who want more freedoms and less government control. This is led by the premier (who you may know was recently censored...). Your second group is the hardliners, this is really the military and the old guys who miss Mao. This is the group which is really forcing conflict with the US and other western nations, and this is the dangerous group. If they are not appeased, they will take power.



I did not really give a reason for war, and that could greatly effect the conflict in general. I see it as a territory conflict, though Taiwan won't be it. Taiwan is just something that gets fucked once the bullets start to fly. It will probably be in South East Asia or the South China Sea. I see it probably being over oil or some other resource, though oil seems to be the main thing. It could be political as well, though in that case, we need to look at other major players. Russia and India.

India recently started to take their top of the line fighters away from the boarder with Pakistan and move them towards the boarder with China. This is the first time in history that the Indian military has actually been focused away from Pakistan and towards China, secondly, India sits on the sea lane that controls 80% of the PRC's oil supply.

Now Russia. Russia is an empty shell that is slowly modernizing. Russia also has a lot of oil and natural gas. Unlike most people, I don't see Russia as the enemy, and any conflict that could ever happen with them would just be a conglomerate of stupid events building on top of one another which eventually leads to war. That said, its never gonna happen unless some interesting political changes take place. Ignoring that and back to the PRC. These two could eventually fight over Central Asia and possibly Siberia. Now I hate Tom Clancy, the guys a AMERICA FUCK YEAH douche bag, so it kills me to even say that the possibility of these two fighting exists, but it does. Some might say the completion of the massive LNG line in eastern Siberia is a sign these two are warming up. I say no, they hate each other and always have. Its the same thing as the west selling grain to the Soviet Union. Its not personal, just business.

I don't know what might start a war, if I could predict the future I'd be rich, that is just some scenarios.

There is one last big variable. North Korea. They are never going to start a war, but if a larger war breaks out, their paranoia may go over the boiling point and they may go south. The South easily has the capability to stop them, but morale is a big factor, and if they feel that the US can no longer help them, they might roll over.

I've been sitting in this chair for almost 2 hours, I'm done. There we're some other things I had wanted to say, and I may add them in later. I'd like to ask War Man and Shifty to please not jack off to this.

Almost forgot, I wanted to throw this in as some evidence of the capabilities of USCYBERCOM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suter_%28c … program%29

@ Rukus
Well aware of my blowhard state, thank you. Right about my view, I don't think the current state of our country is where it should be. Don't worry though, the perfect solution is, in 2012, to vote for ANOTHER democrat or republican. That should fix things.

Last edited by mcjagdflieger (2011-01-09 12:22:18)

mcjagdflieger wrote:

@ Rukus
Well aware of my blowhard state, thank you. Right about my view, I don't think the current state of our country is where it should be. Don't worry though, the perfect solution is, in 2012, to vote for ANOTHER democrat or republican. That should fix things.

Judging by your avatar, you're insinuating that Obama is a hitler clone? Or that our government is some sort of facist reich?

A war with China would have unacceptable levels of casualties. China would fuck people up good for the first few months but they'd eventually lose their upper-hand. Think WW2 Japan.

Based on all those stories and articles adding the fact everybody would suddenly be China's enemy.

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Based on all those stories and articles adding the fact everybody would suddenly be China's enemy.

Fair and balanced.

eleven bravo wrote:

we need tie fighters

coke wrote:

http://www.56.com/flashApp/56.10.12.03.c.swf?vid=NTc3NTI4NTA

Video of testing.

That thing is huge. If the F22 and that J20 are both radar proof, and they have to rely on visual feedback, the F22 pilot has a clear advantage

^^ stupid remark of the day achieved

RDMC wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

we need tie fighters

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/28748 … -54646.jpg

That is not a fie fighter, that is the moon silly!

look closer.