Pages: 1 … 3 4 5 6 7 … 20

 

2010-11-29 08:29:45
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

Ticia wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Ticia wrote:


Pissed? Try scared shitless. Sure is no surprise that duplicity is the very basis of US foreign policy, we all know it but proof like this is what we all wanted.
So as of now anyone who opposes this exposure is in fact supporting duplicity.
Guess what? That's how politics works. That's how life works. I'm sure your friends have occasionally said things about you behind your back that you wouldn't want said to your face.
Guess what? My friends are not dangerous greedy liars.
So now you hate America?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 08:30:32
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6711

Ticia wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Ticia wrote:


Pissed? Try scared shitless. Sure is no surprise that duplicity is the very basis of US foreign policy, we all know it but proof like this is what we all wanted.
So as of now anyone who opposes this exposure is in fact supporting duplicity.
Guess what? That's how politics works. That's how life works. I'm sure your friends have occasionally said things about you behind your back that you wouldn't want said to your face.
Guess what? My friends are not dangerous greedy liars.
guess what? you over-idealise people

language and gossip are the hallmark of our species
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-11-29 08:30:32
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6239|...

Ticia wrote:

Pissed? Try scared shitless. Sure is no surprise that duplicity is the very basis of US foreign policy, we all know it but proof like this is what we all wanted.
So as of now anyone who opposes this exposure is in fact supporting duplicity.
Anyone who supports this exposure is completely oblivious to the actual importance of classified documents.
inane little opines
2010-11-29 08:30:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:


still pretty sad that an 18-20 year old could say that to a bunch of supposed wise, well-read, learned old men though... eh

jesus christ you guys must have been resting on your laurels for the last few decades
Ego does not equal wisdom.  Shahter will sometimes bring up good points, but he unfortunately has a tendency to let his arrogance blind him.
the thing is though that you think by having more years on us, and by flitting between political ideologies like an amsterdam hooker changes underwear, that you're somehow accruing more 'knowledge' and more 'wisdom'. that's surely just your ego slowly inflating through a process of intellectual posturing, half-assed research and toying with new ideas? how do you qualify your 'wisdom'? just because you've turncoated a bunch of times and have revised your opinions on a few matters? that's not wisdom - you could just as easily say that it's simply being indecisive. perhaps even lazy and ill-informed, for some people.
So, essentially, you're saying I should never change my mind about something.
2010-11-29 08:31:41
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

Ticia wrote:

Hi i'm Ticia, late 20's, living in Europe but obsessed with everything America.

My friends can't stand me talking politics anymore so i turn to you to annoy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 08:33:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina
You pulled that from the introductions thread, eh?
2010-11-29 08:34:13
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6711

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Ego does not equal wisdom.  Shahter will sometimes bring up good points, but he unfortunately has a tendency to let his arrogance blind him.
the thing is though that you think by having more years on us, and by flitting between political ideologies like an amsterdam hooker changes underwear, that you're somehow accruing more 'knowledge' and more 'wisdom'. that's surely just your ego slowly inflating through a process of intellectual posturing, half-assed research and toying with new ideas? how do you qualify your 'wisdom'? just because you've turncoated a bunch of times and have revised your opinions on a few matters? that's not wisdom - you could just as easily say that it's simply being indecisive. perhaps even lazy and ill-informed, for some people.
So, essentially, you're saying I should never change my mind about something.
of course not... im just saying your pretense of 'wisdom' is just as easily construed as a form of superficially-curious posturing.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-11-29 08:35:53
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

You pulled that from the introductions thread, eh?
I did. It's just funny how much her opinion of the US has changed inside of a year.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 08:36:53
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6239|...

CNN wrote:

A computer hacker who calls himself "The Jester" claimed responsibility for the cyber attack which took down the WikiLeaks site Sunday, shortly before it started posting hundreds of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables.
The first cyberwar?
inane little opines
2010-11-29 08:37:47
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:


the thing is though that you think by having more years on us, and by flitting between political ideologies like an amsterdam hooker changes underwear, that you're somehow accruing more 'knowledge' and more 'wisdom'. that's surely just your ego slowly inflating through a process of intellectual posturing, half-assed research and toying with new ideas? how do you qualify your 'wisdom'? just because you've turncoated a bunch of times and have revised your opinions on a few matters? that's not wisdom - you could just as easily say that it's simply being indecisive. perhaps even lazy and ill-informed, for some people.
So, essentially, you're saying I should never change my mind about something.
of course not... im just saying your pretense of 'wisdom' is just as easily construed as a form of superficially-curious posturing.
I never made the claim that I was wise.  That would be kind of like making the claim that I'm humble.  It's a self-defeating declaration.
2010-11-29 08:38:02
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

dayarath wrote:

CNN wrote:

A computer hacker who calls himself "The Jester" claimed responsibility for the cyber attack which took down the WikiLeaks site Sunday, shortly before it started posting hundreds of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables.
The first cyberwar?
Jester is a character in the movie Top Gun
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 08:38:24
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6711

dayarath wrote:

CNN wrote:

A computer hacker who calls himself "The Jester" claimed responsibility for the cyber attack which took down the WikiLeaks site Sunday, shortly before it started posting hundreds of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables.
The first cyberwar?
have you missed the last few decades of internet history?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-11-29 08:43:04
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6239|...

Uzique wrote:

[
have you missed the last few decades of internet history?
There has never been this much attention to an internet-based company.
inane little opines
2010-11-29 08:45:26
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You pulled that from the introductions thread, eh?
I did. It's just funny how much her opinion of the US has changed inside of a year.
I can't speak for Ticia, but her fascination with us would seem to have always been a mixed one.  She admires us for certain things but finds other things about us disturbing.

It's probably not that different from how a lot of Americans view Europe.  For example, I admire things like socialized healthcare, but I'm very much against the idea behind the EU, and I think things like monarchies (even figurehead ones) are ridiculous.
2010-11-29 08:45:51
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6463|Escea

JohnG@lt wrote:

dayarath wrote:

CNN wrote:

A computer hacker who calls himself "The Jester" claimed responsibility for the cyber attack which took down the WikiLeaks site Sunday, shortly before it started posting hundreds of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables.
The first cyberwar?
Jester is a character in the movie Top Gun
Holy shit it was Michael Ironside.

And Michael Ironside don't take no shit from nobody.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2010-11-29 08:46:07)

2010-11-29 08:46:00
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6711
the fact that this is the first big media-furore around internet activity doesn't negate the possibility of previous internet 'altercations'

cyber-attacks happen all the time; in fact, lots of the cables leaked this time around reveal china's constant cyber-terrorism / 'war' activity
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-11-29 08:46:07
Ticia
Member
+73|5575

Turquoise wrote:

Ticia wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

They know exactly what was leaked. They've known since the day he was caught. The US government isn't surprised by these leaks, they're just rightfully pissed off.
Pissed? Try scared shitless. Sure is no surprise that duplicity is the very basis of US foreign policy, we all know it but proof like this is what we all wanted.
So as of now anyone who opposes this exposure is in fact supporting duplicity.
Not really.  Perspective is what is needed.  Assange clearly has a grudge against America.  If he focused his energy more evenly between the various regimes of the world that could be construed as oppressive, then he'd be a true whistleblower.

As things currently stand though, he's just aiming for the biggest target.  He also is aiming for a target that is less willing to just kill him outright.

You can be sure that if he exposed more about say...  the Chinese government, he would be dead by now.
He's aiming for the easiest target since US intelligence is not smart enough to hide this documents in the first place.

When it becomes so clear that your foreign policies have been made for the benefit of ignoble countries instead of your own...all you focus on is Assange.
2010-11-29 08:51:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

M.O.A.B wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

dayarath wrote:


The first cyberwar?
Jester is a character in the movie Top Gun
Holy shit it was Michael Ironside.

And Michael Ironside don't take no shit from nobody.
Michal Ironside is beast. Chuck Norris has nothing on him.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 08:54:24
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

Ticia wrote:

He's aiming for the easiest target since US intelligence is not smart enough to hide this documents in the first place.

When it becomes so clear that your foreign policies have been made for the benefit of ignoble countries instead of your own...all you focus on is Assange.
We do hide them though.  The problem isn't so much our technique as much as it is who we trust.  Manning was given too much information at too low a level and with the wrong psychological profile.

Keeping things secret requires a moral flexibility that most people don't have.  It also requires an exceptional amount of loyalty.

I'm not exactly a fan of our foreign policy right now either, but we're certainly more moral about it than a lot of our predecessors have been.

The whole concept of nation-building is ultimately more for the benefit of a conquered nation than the conqueror.  If you look at what the Soviets did to a lot of countries or at what Europe did in the colonial age, we seem comparatively moral.

Granted, I'm not saying that we should continue this shit.
2010-11-29 09:03:29
Ticia
Member
+73|5575

Turquoise wrote:

Ticia wrote:

He's aiming for the easiest target since US intelligence is not smart enough to hide this documents in the first place.

When it becomes so clear that your foreign policies have been made for the benefit of ignoble countries instead of your own...all you focus on is Assange.
We do hide them though.  The problem isn't so much our technique as much as it is who we trust.  Manning was given too much information at too low a level and with the wrong psychological profile.

Keeping things secret requires a moral flexibility that most people don't have.  It also requires an exceptional amount of loyalty.

I'm not exactly a fan of our foreign policy right now either, but we're certainly more moral about it than a lot of our predecessors have been.

The whole concept of nation-building is ultimately more for the benefit of a conquered nation than the conqueror.  If you look at what the Soviets did to a lot of countries or at what Europe did in the colonial age, we seem comparatively moral.

Granted, I'm not saying that we should continue this shit.
Israeli and Saudi interests when it comes to Iran are why the US makes enemies. You're just doing their dirty work, nothing moral about that.
2010-11-29 09:06:53
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

Ticia wrote:

Israeli and Saudi interests when it comes to Iran are why the US makes enemies. You're just doing their dirty work, nothing moral about that.
Hey, we agree there.  I was referring more to the other things that Assange has leaked.  He essentially helped the Taliban kill lots of Afghani elders that were aiding us with his last big leak.

This leak is of a different nature, but I can assure you that if we were privy to secret documents referring to Iran's dealings, they would probably make Israel and Saudi Arabia look like good guys by comparison.
2010-11-29 09:16:50
Ticia
Member
+73|5575

Turquoise wrote:

Ticia wrote:

Israeli and Saudi interests when it comes to Iran are why the US makes enemies. You're just doing their dirty work, nothing moral about that.
Hey, we agree there.  I was referring more to the other things that Assange has leaked.  He essentially helped the Taliban kill lots of Afghani elders that were aiding us with his last big leak.

This leak is of a different nature, but I can assure you that if we were privy to secret documents referring to Iran's dealings, they would probably make Israel and Saudi Arabia look like good guys by comparison.
Fair enough

But if you want to compare the US to Iran, by all means.
2010-11-29 09:20:27
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5598|London, England

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ticia wrote:

Israeli and Saudi interests when it comes to Iran are why the US makes enemies. You're just doing their dirty work, nothing moral about that.
Hey, we agree there.  I was referring more to the other things that Assange has leaked.  He essentially helped the Taliban kill lots of Afghani elders that were aiding us with his last big leak.

This leak is of a different nature, but I can assure you that if we were privy to secret documents referring to Iran's dealings, they would probably make Israel and Saudi Arabia look like good guys by comparison.
Fair enough

But if you want to compare the US to Iran, by all means.
I hate you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-29 09:22:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6645|North Carolina

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ticia wrote:

Israeli and Saudi interests when it comes to Iran are why the US makes enemies. You're just doing their dirty work, nothing moral about that.
Hey, we agree there.  I was referring more to the other things that Assange has leaked.  He essentially helped the Taliban kill lots of Afghani elders that were aiding us with his last big leak.

This leak is of a different nature, but I can assure you that if we were privy to secret documents referring to Iran's dealings, they would probably make Israel and Saudi Arabia look like good guys by comparison.
Fair enough

But if you want to compare the US to Iran, by all means.
lol...  touche.
2010-11-29 09:34:51
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6778|Long Island, New York

JohnG@lt wrote:

I <3 my Representative

The incoming chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee wants the Obama administration to aggressively pursue WikiLeaks and its founder Julian Assange.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) says he’s asked Attorney General Eric Holder to take quick action. “I am calling on the attorney general and supporting his efforts to fully prosecute WikiLeaks and its founder for violating the Espionage Act,” King told a New York radio station.
King, now the ranking Republican on the homeland security panel, also asked Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to determine whether it’s possible to declare WikiLeaks a foreign terrorist organization. Doing that, he said, would give the U.S. government authority “to seize their funds and go after anyone who provides them with any help or contributions or assistance whatsoever.”

And the congressman said he believes his call for action will get plenty of congressional backing. “I’m confident you’ll find many people in the Congress, the House and Senate, who will support my demand for the prosecution and also the declaring of WikiLeaks to be a foreign terrorist organization,” he said.

The latest document dump from WikiLeaks has put "American lives at risk all over the world," King said. "This is worse even than a physical attack on Americans, it's worse than a military attack."
Peter King can be a dick and extremely conservative, but stuff like this is why I just can't hate him. Would rather have him over Bishop any day of the week.

 

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