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2010-11-24 08:26:15
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

dayarath wrote:

Which is also bugging me tbh, often times to the west that means ignoring a problem until it becomes too large to ignore any longer, and often extremely dangerous.
True...

dayarath wrote:

Our dependency on technology is our main weakness. Firstly, the human factor on the ground will never be eliminated because of our amazing problem solving capabilities. Secondly, electronics aren't invincible. An EMP of sorts makes you sit there with all your shiny technology unable to do anything.
Well, most of the technology we're developing is still human controlled.  It kind of reduces certain actions down to an almost video game feel.  So, as long as the communication between the machines and their human operators isn't compromised, we can apply our own logic and perceptions to a conflict through a machine.  This level of separation makes decision making more logical and less affected by emotion.

If I'm not mistaken, most of our higher technology is shielded from EMP effects.  I believe all of our fighter planes are shielded, and I would think shielding would be easy to apply to land-based machinery.

dayarath wrote:

And lastly... it's expensive. Seriously, really, really expensive. People are talking about f.ex. homing artillery ammunition and the only thing I can think of is "how the hell are you going to afford that in a real conflict?".
In the short run, it's extremely expensive.  In the long run, economies of scale take effect.  Also, it seems reasonable to assume that technologies of this sort can be designed to be relatively low maintenance.
2010-11-24 08:37:21
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6284|...

Turquoise wrote:

Well, most of the technology we're developing is still human controlled.  It kind of reduces certain actions down to an almost video game feel.  So, as long as the communication between the machines and their human operators isn't compromised, we can apply our own logic and perceptions to a conflict through a machine.  This level of separation makes decision making more logical and less affected by emotion.
Well however "nice" the idea would be of warfare without humans personally involved, it's a very sci-fi ish idea for now, replacing a really significant amount of functions by drones will only happen many, many decades if not centuries in the future.

I still stand by the fact that having a guy with two feet on the ground up front will be more useful than most drones with cameras. He has a better view of what's going on than someone behind a computer and ultimately more data at his disposal. Next to that I don't think it's a bad idea to have people personally involved in war. It gives you an actual, real view of the situation. Taking the human factor out of warfare would turn it into something even more horrible.

Turqouise wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, most of our higher technology is shielded from EMP effects.  I believe all of our fighter planes are shielded, and I would think shielding would be easy to apply to land-based machinery.
News to me and fair enough. Still, the complete dependancy on tech makes me feel uneasy.

dayarath wrote:

In the short run, it's extremely expensive.  In the long run, economies of scale take effect.  Also, it seems reasonable to assume that technologies of this sort can be designed to be relatively low maintenance.
Well the more parts you put into something the more it's going to cost. A simple bullet will always be cheaper to produce, needs alot less troubleshooting and is very easy to use.
inane little opines
2010-11-24 08:40:39
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

dayarath wrote:

Well however "nice" the idea would be of warfare without humans personally involved, it's a very sci-fi ish idea for now, replacing a really significant amount of functions by drones will only happen many, many decades if not centuries in the future.

I still stand by the fact that having a guy with two feet on the ground up front will be more useful than most drones with cameras. He has a better view of what's going on than someone behind a computer and ultimately more data at his disposal. Next to that I don't think it's a bad idea to have people personally involved in war. It gives you an actual, real view of the situation. Taking the human factor out of warfare would turn it into something even more horrible.
True again...   Still, I'm not sure if I'd call war without the human factor "horrible."

dayarath wrote:

Well the more parts you put into something the more it's going to cost. A simple bullet will always be cheaper to produce, needs alot less troubleshooting and is very easy to use.
Well yes, that is true that our current form of warfare is generally going to be cheaper than going completely for the tech approach even with mass production in effect.
2010-11-24 08:41:43
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6284|...

Turquoise wrote:

True again...   Still, I'm not sure if I'd call war without the human factor "horrible."
Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
inane little opines
2010-11-24 08:46:20
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

dayarath wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

True again...   Still, I'm not sure if I'd call war without the human factor "horrible."
Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
2010-11-24 08:48:27
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6284|...

Turquoise wrote:

Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
It would be extremely easy to make a decision that could have potentially catastrophic consequences (or one that would be considered a war crime i.e. completely unjustified) from a computer screen. Not being directly involved has it's cost.
inane little opines
2010-11-24 08:50:43
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

dayarath wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
It would be extremely easy to make a decision that could have potentially catastrophic consequences (or one that would be considered a war crime i.e. completely unjustified) from a computer screen. Not being directly involved has it's cost.
No argument there....
2010-11-24 08:50:46
Ticia
Member
+73|5620

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

True again...   Still, I'm not sure if I'd call war without the human factor "horrible."
Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
Ah good the terrorists feel the same about you, to even out things,you know?
2010-11-24 08:53:26
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:


Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
Ah good the terrorists feel the same about you, to even out things,you know?
Yep, everyone does it.  Terrorists or otherwise.  I'm just more willing to admit it than most.
2010-11-24 10:36:33
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6639
War in the winds ~ obozo at the helm ~ god* help us all.

* alah, jah, whatever.
2010-11-24 11:08:00
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6999|Purplicious Wisconsin

dayarath wrote:

War Man wrote:

They're testing Obama 'cause they know he isn't do jack shit except negotiate a cease fire. Why the fuck couldn't the North Koreans wait until we have a tough president so we can seriously fuck them over real bad?

South Korea won't really do much until NK troops march south and attack them directly. But I think NK is just gonna keep on toying with its southern brother and the USA and just laugh at us doing nothing.
The US doesn't have jack to do with this - not in the decision to go to war. Obama did _the right thing_ by telling the south koreans "you have our support".
Maybe I should of posted what I originally was gonna post, which is basically the same except I included SK and Europe. Then I'd get less criticism. None the less, NK is just taunting US & SK right now, they don't care if this leads to war. They know we're both weak and probably won't do jack shit. Obama may be doing the right thing by letting SK decide, but is SK gonna do the right thing or not?
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2010-11-24 11:08:52
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

War Man wrote:

dayarath wrote:

War Man wrote:

They're testing Obama 'cause they know he isn't do jack shit except negotiate a cease fire. Why the fuck couldn't the North Koreans wait until we have a tough president so we can seriously fuck them over real bad?

South Korea won't really do much until NK troops march south and attack them directly. But I think NK is just gonna keep on toying with its southern brother and the USA and just laugh at us doing nothing.
The US doesn't have jack to do with this - not in the decision to go to war. Obama did _the right thing_ by telling the south koreans "you have our support".
Maybe I should of posted what I originally was gonna post, which is basically the same except I included SK and Europe. Then I'd get less criticism. None the less, NK is just taunting US & SK right now, they don't care if this leads to war. They know we're both weak and probably won't do jack shit. Obama may be doing the right thing by letting SK decide, but is SK gonna do the right thing or not?
How the fuck are we weak? Go back to playing online shooter games. You know nothing.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-24 11:19:14
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6284|...

War Man wrote:

Maybe I should of posted what I originally was gonna post, which is basically the same except I included SK and Europe. Then I'd get less criticism. None the less, NK is just taunting US & SK right now, they don't care if this leads to war. They know we're both weak and probably won't do jack shit. Obama may be doing the right thing by letting SK decide, but is SK gonna do the right thing or not?
No, you don't get it. It's not the US's place to decide anything here, and it's not your place to deem SK's decision, whatever it may be, as being 'the right thing or not'.

And I don't get the 'weak' comments tbh.

Last edited by dayarath (2010-11-24 11:21:13)

inane little opines
2010-11-24 11:36:41
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6999|Purplicious Wisconsin

dayarath wrote:

War Man wrote:

Maybe I should of posted what I originally was gonna post, which is basically the same except I included SK and Europe. Then I'd get less criticism. None the less, NK is just taunting US & SK right now, they don't care if this leads to war. They know we're both weak and probably won't do jack shit. Obama may be doing the right thing by letting SK decide, but is SK gonna do the right thing or not?
No, you don't get it. It's not the US's place to decide anything here, and it's not your place to deem SK's decision, whatever it may be, as being 'the right thing or not'.

And I don't get the 'weak' comments tbh.
I said Obama may be doing the right thing with waiting for SK's decision. As for SK's decision, it's either gonna end up either the right or wrong thing. Can't know for sure until the future comes.

Last edited by War Man (2010-11-24 11:36:56)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2010-11-24 12:33:35
jord
Member
+2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.
May not be doing the right thing waiting for south koreas decision?

I've generally grown apathetic to such bone comments here and can just scroll past them but fuck, are you taking the piss or what?
2010-11-24 15:13:57
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

dayarath wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It IS a powder keg, no doubt. But it is a 60-year old powder keg.
Aging bombs tend to become more unstable over time. FEOS it's ridiculous to state that this year has been "just like any other" concerning North Korea. Since the beginning of the armistice never has there been this much aggression by the north koreans in plain view for all to see.
Nothing ridiculous about it. They sunk a ship earlier this year, they regularly infiltrate SOF teams, there have been multiple air-to-air incidents, DMZ incidents (to include indirect fire exchanges). And far more people/property were killed/damaged in those other incidents.

Again...yay for no short (or long) term memory.

dayarath wrote:

Now I'm not a warmongerer nor do I believe this is the kickstart to a war but whatever is going to happen after this incident it's safe to say that the NK population will bear the brunt of the punishment, with all it's consequences. For now, I assume that everyone is waiting patiently on what China has to say about the whole situation and for whom they will voice support, if any.
I would expect China to take the same position vis a vis North Korea that they have in the 6 Party Talks: siding with everyone else against nK, telling the Chonger to pull his oversized head out of his ass or he'll be even more ostracized.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-11-24 15:15:31
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7065|Great Brown North

JohnG@lt wrote:

War Man wrote:

dayarath wrote:


The US doesn't have jack to do with this - not in the decision to go to war. Obama did _the right thing_ by telling the south koreans "you have our support".
Maybe I should of posted what I originally was gonna post, which is basically the same except I included SK and Europe. Then I'd get less criticism. None the less, NK is just taunting US & SK right now, they don't care if this leads to war. They know we're both weak and probably won't do jack shit. Obama may be doing the right thing by letting SK decide, but is SK gonna do the right thing or not?
How the fuck are we weak? Go back to playing online shooter games. You know nothing.
didnt declare war and start immediate bombing
2010-11-24 16:39:29
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6952

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

True again...   Still, I'm not sure if I'd call war without the human factor "horrible."
Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
What are you on.  There aren't any extremists in NK.  No level of brainwashing akin to extremists.   It's just East versus West Germany, Asian style.  SK and NK common folk just want to get back together.  Google the times when SK people were able to visit NK relatives.  It was the same as West Germans visiting East German relatives.  Walmart excess versus food ration tickets.  There is no hatred between the common SK and NK populace.  Only the extreme power that the NK dictatorship holds is what keeps the people subjugated.  Kill off the top 1000 or so in power, and the 1 million standing and 7 million reserve military will up and disappear.

Personally, I'm expecting a military coup.  That military elite, pro war or not, can't really say.
2010-11-24 19:52:44
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Ilocano wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:


Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
What are you on.  There aren't any extremists in NK.  No level of brainwashing akin to extremists.   It's just East versus West Germany, Asian style.  SK and NK common folk just want to get back together.  Google the times when SK people were able to visit NK relatives.  It was the same as West Germans visiting East German relatives.  Walmart excess versus food ration tickets.  There is no hatred between the common SK and NK populace.  Only the extreme power that the NK dictatorship holds is what keeps the people subjugated.  Kill off the top 1000 or so in power, and the 1 million standing and 7 million reserve military will up and disappear.

Personally, I'm expecting a military coup.  That military elite, pro war or not, can't really say.
I don't claim to be any expert on North Korea, but I have to say that I read conflicting things about their people.
2010-11-24 22:18:44
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

Ilocano wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:


Don't forget there are people on the receiving end aswell.
Whether or not people die isn't as much of a concern to me as the kind of people dying.

A culture of brainwashed pawns or primitive tribespeople mean less to me than highly educated and highly productive people.

People don't like to talk about it, but we all prioritize the values of individuals by their capabilities and tendencies.

How horrible a war can be is relative to the other options available and the consequences of not engaging in the war.
What are you on.  There aren't any extremists in NK.  No level of brainwashing akin to extremists.   It's just East versus West Germany, Asian style.  SK and NK common folk just want to get back together.  Google the times when SK people were able to visit NK relatives.  It was the same as West Germans visiting East German relatives.  Walmart excess versus food ration tickets.  There is no hatred between the common SK and NK populace.  Only the extreme power that the NK dictatorship holds is what keeps the people subjugated.  Kill off the top 1000 or so in power, and the 1 million standing and 7 million reserve military will up and disappear.

Personally, I'm expecting a military coup.  That military elite, pro war or not, can't really say.
I strongly agree with this.

I would like to see Korea as one nation again, but under a government system like South Korea's.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-11-24 22:34:59
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7060|Moscow, Russia

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I would like to see Korea as one nation again, but under a government system like South Korea's.
of course you would. more little koreans working 16 hours a day so that enlightened and progressive can keep sitting on their asses in frond of the screen - why the hell woudn't you want that?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-11-24 22:52:12
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

Shahter wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I would like to see Korea as one nation again, but under a government system like South Korea's.
of course you would. more little koreans working 16 hours a day so that enlightened and progressive can keep sitting on their asses in frond of the screen - why the hell woudn't you want that?
They'd have much more freedom than they have now. Not that you know what that is. You're one hell of an ass when you want to be Shahter.

Not all Koreans are poor, work 16 hours a day, and have shitty living conditions just so Western folks can enjoy their cell phones, televisions, porn, etc.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-11-24 23:05:52
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7060|Moscow, Russia

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Shahter wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I would like to see Korea as one nation again, but under a government system like South Korea's.
of course you would. more little koreans working 16 hours a day so that enlightened and progressive can keep sitting on their asses in frond of the screen - why the hell woudn't you want that?
They'd have much more freedom than they have now.
freedom to work 16 hours a day. right.

Not that you know what that is.
oh yeah. of course i don't. having seen both worlds, having experienced for myself exactly what that "freedom" your jedi bring around the world really entails - of course i don't know anything. it is you sitting on your butt watching tv who knows stuff.

You're one hell of an ass when you want to be Shahter.
between ass and intestinal worm - sure, i prefer being an ass, thank you very much.

Not all Koreans are poor, work 16 hours a day, and have shitty living conditions
that of course excuses everything.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-11-25 00:55:50
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6434|'straya
Shahter are you actually trying to argue that the standard of living is higher in NK than SK?

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2010-11-25 00:56:04)

2010-11-25 02:17:04
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7060|Moscow, Russia

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Shahter are you actually trying to argue that the standard of living is higher in NK than SK?
no
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

 

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