Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6413|North Carolina
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration told the manufacturers of seven caffeinated alcoholic beverages Wednesday that their drinks are a "public health concern" and can't stay on the market in their current form.

The move follows a year-long review by the FDA, which gave the companies 15 days to either reformulate their products or face possible seizure under federal law, said Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, the agency's principal deputy commissioner. Experts have said the caffeine used in the beverages can mask the effects of alcohol, leaving drinkers unaware of how intoxicated they are.

"FDA does not find support for the claim that the addition of caffeine to these alcoholic beverages is 'generally recognized as safe,' which is the legal standard," Sharfstein told reporters. "To the contrary, there is evidence that the combinations of caffeine and alcohol in these products pose a public health concern."

One of the companies that received warning letters was Phusion Projects, of Chicago, Illinois, which makes Four Loko -- a drink nicknamed "blackout in a can" by some users. The company announced Tuesday that it was dropping caffeine and two other ingredients, guarana and taurine, from Four Loko in the face of "a difficult and politically-charged regulatory environment."


...

The FDA began its review in November 2009, after complaints from officials in several states. The controversy exploded in October, when nine underage students at Central Washington University were hospitalized after drinking Four Loko, both on its own and mixed with other drinks, police reported.

Critics say drinks like Four Loko mix caffeine equal to the amount in three cups of coffee with the alcoholic equivalent of three cans of beer and are designed to appeal to younger consumers accustomed to consuming high-caffeine energy drinks. A 23.5-ounce can of Four Loko contains either 6 or 12 percent alcohol by volume, depending on state regulations.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/17/al … tml?hpt=T2

So do the FDA and critics of drinks like Four Loko have a legitimate point, or is this overreaction by government?

Personally, I find it odd that the FDA is quicker to take action restricting combination energy-alcohol drinks than they are to make statements regarding trans fats, HFCS, or corporate farming.

It's one thing when a public health hazard is subtly present within food (like trans fats) or when the predominant system of food production has sanitation issues (like crowded and filthy chickenhouses), but in the grand scheme of things, Four Loko seems pretty far down the list of public health hazards.

Besides, all alcoholic beverages are already regulated enough as it is.  Why regulate them even more?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6639|949

I had a week-long four loko binge about 2 weeks ago.  By the last day I felt like I was going to have a heart-attack.  They are not good for your health.  I fully support the action of our fearless government.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6413|North Carolina
Right, but shouldn't this be more of a personal choice issue?  It's not like alcohol poses a hazard that is unknown to most.  Caffeine does complicate things somewhat, but again, anyone with an iota of sense should understand the dangers upfront.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5365|London, England
I'm gonna pop a stack of No-Doz and chase them down with a fifth of Jack. This is stupidity and knee jerk overreaction at its finest.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|6661

Turquoise wrote:

Right, but shouldn't this be more of a personal choice issue?  It's not like alcohol poses a hazard that is unknown to most.  Caffeine does complicate things somewhat, but again, anyone with an iota of sense should understand the dangers upfront.
True, but I think it's more in the lines of the argument against flavored cigarettes (more "accessible" to kids, etc.), and coupled with the addition of caffeine - which does pose legitimate health concerns when mixed with alcohol - you've created a product that is more dangerous than a "normal" alcoholic drink of similar strength...

Assuming the drink does cater to a younger audience (not even necessarily underage), then by and large we're talking relatively inexperienced drinkers, and caffeine tends to offset the apparent effects of alcohol to an intoxicated individual without actually decreasing the physical effects...that means that you don't realize you're as drunk as you think, and makes it much easier to get too damn drunk.  A more experienced drinker will still probably realize what's going on and compensate, but my dorm life is still fresh enough in my memory to imagine plenty of residence hall heroes seriously overdoing it on this stuff.


All that said, I still agree with your sentiment.  I don't feel like measures such as these are anything more than symbolic (what measure isn't these days?), and in a way they probably draw more attention to the issue than is warranted, actually making it worse in the process...I wonder how many young people rushed out to try Four Loko for the first time after all of these stories started coming out?
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6413|North Carolina

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Right, but shouldn't this be more of a personal choice issue?  It's not like alcohol poses a hazard that is unknown to most.  Caffeine does complicate things somewhat, but again, anyone with an iota of sense should understand the dangers upfront.
True, but I think it's more in the lines of the argument against flavored cigarettes (more "accessible" to kids, etc.), and coupled with the addition of caffeine - which does pose legitimate health concerns when mixed with alcohol - you've created a product that is more dangerous than a "normal" alcoholic drink of similar strength...

Assuming the drink does cater to a younger audience (not even necessarily underage), then by and large we're talking relatively inexperienced drinkers, and caffeine tends to offset the apparent effects of alcohol to an intoxicated individual without actually decreasing the physical effects...that means that you don't realize you're as drunk as you think, and makes it much easier to get too damn drunk.  A more experienced drinker will still probably realize what's going on and compensate, but my dorm life is still fresh enough in my memory to imagine plenty of residence hall heroes seriously overdoing it on this stuff.


All that said, I still agree with your sentiment.  I don't feel like measures such as these are anything more than symbolic (what measure isn't these days?), and in a way they probably draw more attention to the issue than is warranted, actually making it worse in the process...I wonder how many young people rushed out to try Four Loko for the first time after all of these stories started coming out?
Good points...   Well, I don't know.  I've never quite understood why we can't take more of a European approach to alcohol.  The drinking age is lower in most European countries, and because kids are raised in an environment where alcohol isn't seen as much as a taboo, there's less of a culture of binging.

For example, Germans seem to have a better grasp on how to hold their liquor or beer at a younger age.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6545|Long Island, New York
First time I had a Four Loko, I had about a can and a half. I blacked out. I've drank it sparingly since then, but shit... just let me get drunk off of Vodka, Rum and Beer please. Of course, people are going to find a way to get the same effect anyways. No-Doz is the quickest solution. Buy some stock in the company that owns them.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5365|London, England

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Right, but shouldn't this be more of a personal choice issue?  It's not like alcohol poses a hazard that is unknown to most.  Caffeine does complicate things somewhat, but again, anyone with an iota of sense should understand the dangers upfront.
True, but I think it's more in the lines of the argument against flavored cigarettes (more "accessible" to kids, etc.), and coupled with the addition of caffeine - which does pose legitimate health concerns when mixed with alcohol - you've created a product that is more dangerous than a "normal" alcoholic drink of similar strength...

Assuming the drink does cater to a younger audience (not even necessarily underage), then by and large we're talking relatively inexperienced drinkers, and caffeine tends to offset the apparent effects of alcohol to an intoxicated individual without actually decreasing the physical effects...that means that you don't realize you're as drunk as you think, and makes it much easier to get too damn drunk.  A more experienced drinker will still probably realize what's going on and compensate, but my dorm life is still fresh enough in my memory to imagine plenty of residence hall heroes seriously overdoing it on this stuff.


All that said, I still agree with your sentiment.  I don't feel like measures such as these are anything more than symbolic (what measure isn't these days?), and in a way they probably draw more attention to the issue than is warranted, actually making it worse in the process...I wonder how many young people rushed out to try Four Loko for the first time after all of these stories started coming out?
So when should I expect them to ban Red Bull and Coca Cola? They're common mixers and contain caffeine.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6779|PNW

That's kind of silly. People can still mix alcohol and coffee.
Brasso
member
+1,549|6638

JohnG@lt wrote:

So when should I expect them to ban Red Bull and Coca Cola? They're common mixers and contain caffeine.
this and

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

That's kind of silly. People can still mix alcohol and coffee.
gross
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6418|'Murka

Brasso wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

So when should I expect them to ban Red Bull and Coca Cola? They're common mixers and contain caffeine.
this and

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

That's kind of silly. People can still mix alcohol and coffee.
gross
Irish coffee is quite tasty.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CC-Marley
Member
+407|6836
Same with Spanish, Mexican, Nutty Irishman's, Keoke, the list is long...
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6545|Long Island, New York

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

That's kind of silly. People can still mix alcohol and coffee.
Of course they can, but people can mix a LOT of things to get dangerous combinations.

Four Loko is two things dangerously combined being sold together.

Believe me, I'll miss it - it was an easy way to get drunk. However, I completely realize why it's being banned.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6700

Turquoise wrote:

anyone with an iota of sense should understand the dangers upfront.
Ameriiiiicaaaaaaa FUCK YEAH

Last edited by Superior Mind (2010-11-17 20:09:26)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6453|The Land of Scott Walker
The stupid people who endanger themselves by not using their brain while consuming these drinks are the danger ...
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6585|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!
I can see why they would do that, reasons are good enough for me.

People should just go and make their own mix, this way they will be the only one to blame if shit hit the fan!

Vodka + Redbull =
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5365|London, England

Poseidon wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

That's kind of silly. People can still mix alcohol and coffee.
Of course they can, but people can mix a LOT of things to get dangerous combinations.

Four Loko is two things dangerously combined being sold together.

Believe me, I'll miss it - it was an easy way to get drunk. However, I completely realize why it's being banned.
Because you're an idiot it needs to be banned? For what reason? To protect you from your own idiocy? Jesus Christ, let's ban everything that people get into trouble with. Let's ban video games since they are so addicting!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6156|'straya

Roger Lesboules wrote:

I can see why they would do that, reasons are good enough for me.

People should just go and make their own mix, this way they will be the only one to blame if shit hit the fan!

Vodka + Redbull =
Vodka + Mother is pretty good too
geNius
..!.,
+144|6449|SoCal
We're slowly losing all of our rights because of our dumbest citizens.
https://srejects.com/genius/srejects.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6113|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

Because you're an idiot it needs to be banned? For what reason? To protect you from your own idiocy? Jesus Christ, let's ban everything that people get into trouble with. Let's ban video games since they are so addicting!
Why is gambling banned in most states?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-11-17 22:32:32)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6413|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Because you're an idiot it needs to be banned? For what reason? To protect you from your own idiocy? Jesus Christ, let's ban everything that people get into trouble with. Let's ban video games since they are so addicting!
Why is gambling banned in most states?
...because religious fucktards were against it.  It's basically the same reason why some states don't have lotteries.

People say it's a poor tax, but in reality, it's a tax on stupidity.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6689|Disaster Free Zone
They going to ban Tia Maria and Kahlua now too?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6113|eXtreme to the maX

Turquoise wrote:

...because religious fucktards were against it.  It's basically the same reason why some states don't have lotteries.

People say it's a poor tax, but in reality, it's a tax on stupidity.
You mean are against it.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6689|Disaster Free Zone

Turquoise wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Because you're an idiot it needs to be banned? For what reason? To protect you from your own idiocy? Jesus Christ, let's ban everything that people get into trouble with. Let's ban video games since they are so addicting!
Why is gambling banned in most states?
...because religious fucktards were against it.  It's basically the same reason why some states don't have lotteries.

People say it's a poor tax, but in reality, it's a tax on stupidity.
Well the way the US taxes gambling, I'm sure it is stupid. Loss if you loss, Loss if you win.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6657

Poseidon wrote:

First time I had a Four Loko, I had about a can and a half. I blacked out. I've drank it sparingly since then, but shit... just let me get drunk off of Vodka, Rum and Beer please. Of course, people are going to find a way to get the same effect anyways. No-Doz is the quickest solution. Buy some stock in the company that owns them.
Maybe you can explain this to me, because I've only had a small amount, but what is the difference between a Four Loko and a vodka Red Bull? Why would you be fucked up after a Four Loko and not a vodka Red Bull or two? I keep reading posts from people talking about how "they were like totally wasted man" after drinking these things, and all I can think is they must be totally inexperienced drinkers or something.

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