American Exceptionalism: Truth or Bullshit?

2010-11-17 00:55:36

#201

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|6924|Moscow, Russia

Uzique wrote:
yeah, man, like propaganda for the american democratic project... invented by that most typical of american propagandists... a french member of the aristocracy

shahter you're normally not quite so stupid

look, kid, i'm not going to dive into this shit-pile. i'm a man of simple tastes and practical approach. america is the greatest nation there ever was - as far as nations go. but there's nothing special whatsoever about it - usa is the roman empire of our times, it ascemded to its power just like every other empire in history did, the only difference is in the methods used. and, as every other empire in history, it is going to turn on itself and collapse. "american exceptionalism", regardless of who invented the term and how many books were written since, if we ignore the possible moral implications of it, is a concept invented for the purposes of information and public opinion manipulation, in other words - propaganda.

Last edited by Shahter (2010-11-17 01:04:26)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-11-17 01:18:04

#202

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6619

american exceptionalism can just as easily be a critique as a bragging-right... so im not seeing the propagandist potential

perhaps a little too much glavlit in your lifetime

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-11-17 02:42:21

#203

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|6924|Moscow, Russia

Uzique wrote:
american exceptionalism can just as easily be a critique as a bragging-right... so im not seeing the propagandist potential

this is how you perseive it, and you obviously aren't the type on whom this shit can be used as propaganda. some of the posts in this thread, however, clearly indicate that there are people, on whom it could be.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-11-17 03:06:10

#204

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6619

my point has been, though, that those 'patriots' aren't even talking about exceptionalism

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-11-17 03:29:15

#205

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6560|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
China has the second largest economy, but they are hardly considered a superpower. Not even a second-tier power yet. Probably a third-tier power at this point. There are a whole host of other countries with smaller economies than China that are considered to be greater powers than them. But China is certainly rising at a faster rate than all others, due primarily to their population base (potential power, if you will).
Power, wars etc are all still irrelevant to 'exceptionalism'.

Actually, they are related. How you end up is a large determinant of how you view yourself, both individually and as a country.

Dilbert_X wrote:
Nope. Economic cycles caused it, exacerbated by partisan politics.
Economic cycle wasn't part of it in any form, except the apparently booming economy let people take their eyes off the ball.

It absolutely was part of it, Dilbert. Economies can't continue to boom at the rate ours was without contracting (ie, cycling) to correct, particularly in specific markets (ie, housing).

Uzique wrote:
what does your economic status as a world superpower have to do with exceptionalism?

do i really have to post the definition again? 8 pages in and the yanks are still fucking retards

Enough of your fucking professorialism, Uzique. Some of us can expand on a thought beyond the book definition in a discussion. The concept has clearly morphed from the original as laid out by de Toqueville.

And enough of the use of the word "retard". Why don't you go spend some time with people who suffer from mental and physical disabilities for a while, learn what their lives are like, eh? Then we'll see how quick you are to disparagingly compare others to them, as if they are lesser beings.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-11-17 03:41:07

#206

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6255|eXtreme to the maX

Actually, they are related. How you end up is a large determinant of how you view yourself, both individually and as a country.

Maybe, maybe not.

Being an unassailable landmass sufficiently remote from any potential enemy to be invulnerable, and possessing oil and coal reserves far beyond most other countries are probably just as large factors.

I'd like to see direct measures of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire as opposed to measures such as wars and military power, or an economy based on foreign debt, which are indirect at best and unrelated at worst.

Doesn't Russia have as many nuclear warheads as America? Weren't they also winners in WW2? Does that mean they are just as successful?

Economies can't continue to boom at the rate ours was without contracting (ie, cycling) to correct, particularly in specific markets (ie, housing).

The economy was booming, and subsequently drastically crashed - really it should have totally melted down instead of crashed - because it was unregulated and wildly out of control, nothing to do with 'normal' economic cycles.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-11-17 04:27:18)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2010-11-17 04:27:31

#207

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6503

Uzique wrote:
it's absolutely intrinsic to your national identity

and yeah i guess what plato wrote about republic and democracy over 2,000 years ago is pretty irrelevant nowadays, too

and all that bible stuff... really pointless for 99% of modern americans, eh

fuck me you guys are serious idiots. is this the best excuse you can come up with for your total intellectual retardation?

'studying useful stuff'? i'd rather understand how my nation ideologically identifies itself than know how to make a bridge or play a fucking stock market

Spacing - Alert joe J@rk !

2010-11-17 04:30:31

#208

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6619

i figure the spacing helps people like you

it's kind of like intellectual braille

you can read short, simple sentences and have an entire paragraph break to digest it!

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-11-17 04:31:56

#209

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6255|eXtreme to the maX

Works for me.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2010-11-17 04:35:07

#210

13rin: Member; +977|6628

I bet it does.

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2010-11-17 04:37:27

#211

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6255|eXtreme to the maX

I bet it works for you too.

Really.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2010-11-17 04:57:31

#212

13rin: Member; +977|6628

Nah, I'm aMerican. I just rely on some good ole fashion ceptsionalism to get me by.

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2010-11-17 17:08:58

#213

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6560|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Actually, they are related. How you end up is a large determinant of how you view yourself, both individually and as a country.
Maybe, maybe not.

Being an unassailable landmass sufficiently remote from any potential enemy to be invulnerable, and possessing oil and coal reserves far beyond most other countries are probably just as large factors.

I'd like to see direct measures of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire as opposed to measures such as wars and military power, or an economy based on foreign debt, which are indirect at best and unrelated at worst.

Doesn't Russia have as many nuclear warheads as America? Weren't they also winners in WW2? Does that mean they are just as successful?

The Soviet Union--not Russia--was a winner in WW2. They're not around anymore.

Their successor--Russia--which has a greater measue of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism, and laissez-faire is considered a rising power, along with China, India, and Brazil. Because it's not just the economy or the military power.

Dilbert wrote:
Economies can't continue to boom at the rate ours was without contracting (ie, cycling) to correct, particularly in specific markets (ie, housing).
The economy was booming, and subsequently drastically crashed - really it should have totally melted down instead of crashed - because it was unregulated and wildly out of control, nothing to do with 'normal' economic cycles.

Enough hyperbole already. It was a recession. We've had several of those over the decades. Because economies are cyclical.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-11-18 03:49:57

#214

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6255|eXtreme to the maX

Neither of which are relevant to 'exceptionalism'.

Still, the USSR, which consisted of Russia plus a few satellite states under their thumb, is not much different from Russia by itself.

I suggest you read up on the GFC, it was nothing to do with normal economic cycles.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2010-11-18 03:58:09

#215

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6830|Disaster Free Zone

FEOS wrote:
Their successor--Russia--which has a greater measue of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism, and laissez-faire is considered a rising power, along with China, India, and Brazil. Because it's not just the economy or the military power.

Nope, by your list of countries, population seems to be the overwhelming dominant factor.

2010-11-18 04:08:46

#216

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6255|eXtreme to the maX

Its more that they are rising, from a low base.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2010-11-18 16:05:03

#217

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6560|'Murka

DrunkFace wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Their successor--Russia--which has a greater measue of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism, and laissez-faire is considered a rising power, along with China, India, and Brazil. Because it's not just the economy or the military power.
Nope, by your list of countries, population seems to be the overwhelming dominant factor.

Remove China from the list and all those other attributes apply, as well. China simply has a non-democratic form of government, so the population aspect of the equation overwhelms most other factors for them.

And I suggest YOU read up a bit, Dilly. To argue that the latest economic downturn had "nothing to do with economic cycles" shows you to be either willfully or woefully uninformed. Economic cycles exacerbated by governmental jackassery (as previously stated) were the culprit, not one factor in isolation.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-11-18 17:28:02

#218

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6503

Uzique wrote:
what does your economic status as a world superpower have to do with exceptionalism?

do i really have to post the definition again? 8 pages in and the yanks are still fucking retards

Uzique wrote:
i figure the spacing helps people like you

it's kind of like intellectual braille

you can read short, simple sentences and have an entire paragraph break to digest it!

One sentence does not a paragraph make.

" intellectual braille " really

I'd be happier if you could just type, capitalize and punctuate coherent sentences, but don't stress out on my account, I have seen people blubber over a space before a question mark or exclamation point ! Continue to enjoy.

PS they're trashing islam in other posts !
/\
l
Ooops

2010-11-18 17:42:27

#219

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6619

damn hunter/jumper criticising my ability to produce 'coherent' sentences... with PROPER PUNCTUATION?

it's time for a major life rethink

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-11-18 17:43:22

#220

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5507|London, England

Uzique wrote:
damn hunter/jumper criticising my ability to produce 'coherent' sentences... with PROPER PUNCTUATION?

it's time for a major life rethink

I got an A- on that paper you proofread. I consider that a success

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-11-18 17:53:55

#221

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6503

JohnG@lt wrote:
Uzique wrote:
damn hunter/jumper criticising my ability to produce 'coherent' sentences... with PROPER PUNCTUATION?

it's time for a major life rethink
I got an A- on that paper you proofread. I consider that a success

From what college ?

2010-11-18 17:57:26

#222

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6503

Uzique wrote:
damn hunter/jumper criticising my ability to produce 'coherent' sentences... with PROPER PUNCTUATION?

it's time for a major life rethink

Shorten that to

It's time for a major life rethink

and I think you'll end up a happier man in the end.

2010-11-18 18:03:29

#223

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5507|London, England

Hunter/Jumper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Uzique wrote:
damn hunter/jumper criticising my ability to produce 'coherent' sentences... with PROPER PUNCTUATION?

it's time for a major life rethink
I got an A- on that paper you proofread. I consider that a success
From what college ?

SUNY Maritime.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-11-18 18:28:19

#224

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6619

hunter at which point exactly did you make the e-personality transition from dyslexic babbling moron to witty grammar expert?

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-11-19 03:51:22

#225

Hunter/Jumper: Member; +117|6503

JohnG@lt wrote:
Hunter/Jumper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

I got an A- on that paper you proofread. I consider that a success
From what college ?
SUNY Maritime.

wow

BF2S Forums American Exceptionalism: Truth or Bullshit?

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert wrote:

FEOS wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

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