BF2S Forums Proposition 19 Fails: Is California Really as Liberal as People Say?

Turquoise wrote:

So, in the last few years, we've seen two significant referendum choices by Californians.

Proposition 8 was passed -- effectively banning gay marriage until the courts decided to intervene.

Proposition 19 failed -- keeping illegal an already easily available substance both illegally and through a superficial "medical" system.

And much earlier of course, California also brought us President Reagan.

Nowadays, it seems like the only thing California has been significantly liberal about is illegal immigrants.  Otherwise, it seems like California is increasingly influenced by religious conservatives and other special interest groups that are decidedly conservative on social issues.

Economically, California is still quite liberal about certain things, but socially, they seem to be less liberal than the Northeast.

What do you guys think?

Dilbert_X wrote:

With the colossal power of the unions in California I'd say its more communist than liberal.
I can't remember, are gambling and prostitution legal in California? Whats the drinking age? Deal with them then look to cannabis.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Seems the Dutch aren't so 'liberal' either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11714714

About 30,000 Dutch households are to receive marijuana-scented scratch cards in an effort to uncover illegal urban cannabis plantations.

Authorities in Rotterdam and The Hague say they are distributing the cards to help people recognise what cannabis smells like.

The cards also include a number to call to report suspected marijuana-growing.

Dutch authorities turn a blind eye to citizens growing up to five marijuana plants for personal use.

"Citizens must be alerted to the dangers they face as a result of these plantations, and if they become aware of any suspect situations they must report them," said the spokesman for government-appointed working group to combat cannabis cultivation in the Netherlands, Arnie Loos.
...
Each year, about 200 plantations are discovered in Rotterdam alone.

In 1976, the country decriminalised the consumption and possession of up to five grams of cannabis.

However, bulk cultivation and retail of the drug remain illegal.

Turquoise wrote:

Do you support an internet filter too?

No, but I don't support legalisation of cannabis, crack cocaine or methamphetamine either.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

It's not simply a matter of personal freedom when it affects people who choose not to smoke.  I've been in areas that are so filled with marijuana smoke that I started feeling sick.   Marijuana gets in the air and can affect other people.

Most of us can agree that drunk driving is a major problem.  Car accidents caused by drunk drivers are a major cause of death.  You want to legalize something that can affect you judgment and coordination for a month?  Think of all of the driving fatalities.

Over the long run, Marijuana has some really bad side effects.  Do you want to pay the hospital bills of 1000s of lifetime druggies who didn't take care of themselves?  What about all of the accidents they would get into?

Drunk driving is the cause of 12,000 deaths, one third of all motor vehicular accidents last year. Way to not know the facts, but then again I"m sure you love wasting the money on dare and other retarded "truth" programs that don't work and keeping minor offensive people in jail. I don't understand how bankrupting a country for something you deem to have a negative effect on society is more beneficial.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Hospital bills? Really, we're talking about that. What about all the opiate addicts in this country which is way worse then pot, but it's fucking legal .

jord wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Drunk driving is the cause of 12,000 deaths, one third of all motor vehicular accidents last year. Way to not know the facts, but then again I"m sure you love wasting the money on dare and other retarded "truth" programs that don't work and keeping minor offensive people in jail. I don't understand how bankrupting a country for something you deem to have a negative effect on society is more beneficial.

12000 dead people is not a significant?  By the way, you're not counting the cost of hospital bills in all of the accidents where there were no fatalities.

As to the rest of your comments, I don't see the relevance of anything you mentioned.  By the way, that nonsense about dare is a particularly stupid straw man argument.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Hospital bills? Really, we're talking about that. What about all the opiate addicts in this country which is way worse then pot, but it's fucking legal .

Opium is illegal in the US.

Are you serious? "Marijuana gets in the air and affects other people", yeah if you're sat next to a plantation that's been set on fire...

Areas so filled with marijuana smoke they made you feel sick? Give an example please of an area like that.

Dilbert_X wrote:

because you deem something as wrong gives you the right to imprision people?

Society deems it wrong.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

12,000 Dead in a country of 3 Hundred million is not a significat number at all, it's .00004%, so it's not a major cause of death and accounts for 240 deaths a year per state. I'm pretty sure that majority of people on this board haven't even been effected by this.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Don't you live in a democracy?

cpt.fass1 wrote:

jord wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Drunk driving is the cause of 12,000 deaths, one third of all motor vehicular accidents last year. Way to not know the facts, but then again I"m sure you love wasting the money on dare and other retarded "truth" programs that don't work and keeping minor offensive people in jail. I don't understand how bankrupting a country for something you deem to have a negative effect on society is more beneficial.

12000 dead people is not a significant?  By the way, you're not counting the cost of hospital bills in all of the accidents where there were no fatalities.

As to the rest of your comments, I don't see the relevance of anything you mentioned.  By the way, that nonsense about dare is a particularly stupid straw man argument.


Opium is illegal in the US.

Are you serious? "Marijuana gets in the air and affects other people", yeah if you're sat next to a plantation that's been set on fire...

Areas so filled with marijuana smoke they made you feel sick? Give an example please of an area like that.

12,000 Dead in a country of 3 Hundred million is not a significat number at all, it's .00004%, so it's not a major cause of death and accounts for 240 deaths a year per state. I'm pretty sure that majority of people on this board haven't even been effected by this.

How is Dare a stupid straw man argument? It's not effective, it's actually counter productive because everyone wants to fit in with their peers. So when you have people telling kids that everyone is doing drugs and that doesn't mean you have, it's going to make you want to.