I had something, but was conveniently overlooked last page.
I was quoting you in response to the OP.Kmar wrote:
Do you have anything real to contribute? Why did you quote me? You don't like America.. we get it. If you're looking for a sign that we care you wont find one.
Fuck Israel
Well in that case it's no more bs then any other country. Nearly every country can claim some level of national pride. If you've got a particular beef with American branded Exceptional-ism take it up with Alexis de Tocqueville.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise asked the question
You answered his question.Is American exceptionalism actually a valid ideology, or is it just empty rhetoric and mindless nationalism?
Fuck Israel
His answer to the question was essentially "none of the above".Dilbert_X wrote:
Turquoise asked the questionYou answered his question.Is American exceptionalism actually a valid ideology, or is it just empty rhetoric and mindless nationalism?
Which is also the answer most of the US members have given, if you'll take off your "hate America" blinders and look closely.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
His answer was 'Well in that case it's no more bs then any other country', so the US is hardly exceptional.
Fuck Israel
wat? you feelin okay there, dude?Hunter/Jumper wrote:
I never said I didn't " accept [ my ] history " or that " America is sweetness and fluffy bunnies " My point was, was compared to other cultures ( for instance yours or native Americans ) we look pretty dam good !
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Not sure how he figures that, how do Americans look better than the native Americans they slaughtered?Shahter wrote:
wat? you feelin okay there, dude?Hunter/Jumper wrote:
I never said I didn't " accept [ my ] history " or that " America is sweetness and fluffy bunnies " My point was, was compared to other cultures ( for instance yours or native Americans ) we look pretty dam good !
Fuck Israel
oh, ffs, who cares about the fucking indians. had killing those been the only ugly thing done by the free and the brave they would have been fucking saints compared to everybody else. the thing is - they've done helluwa lot more, exceptionally so considering how young their nation is compared to others. saying they look any better that the rest is completely asinine.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not sure how he figures that, how do Americans look better than the native Americans they slaughtered?Shahter wrote:
wat? you feelin okay there, dude?Hunter/Jumper wrote:
I never said I didn't " accept [ my ] history " or that " America is sweetness and fluffy bunnies " My point was, was compared to other cultures ( for instance yours or native Americans ) we look pretty dam good !
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
i'm seriously trying to compare the motives behind the actions taken. those are the only thing that matters.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Fine, put forward something which does demonstrate US exceptionalism.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
Fuck Israel
I hate to overquote wiki, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_historyShahter wrote:
i'm seriously trying to compare the motives behind the actions taken. those are the only thing that matters.
But as long as you aren't trying to spit-polish other countries' reputations in comparison to the US...
***
I never did. I jumped in on the US vs European morality argument.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fine, put forward something which does demonstrate US exceptionalism.
The only country claiming the high ground in morality is the US, which I think we've agreed is BS.I never did. I jumped in on the US vs European morality argument.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-11-15 02:28:01)
Fuck Israel
Essentially "none of the above", as the answer is neither end of the spectrum provided by Turq. And, as has been explained previously, "American Exceptionalism" is something more than the two words thrown together implies.Dilbert_X wrote:
His answer was 'Well in that case it's no more bs then any other country', so the US is hardly exceptional.
Additionally, he pulled it from Marco Rubio's acceptance speech, which I posted in its entirety. Taken in the full context of Rubio's speech, his reference to the concept is not outlandish.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
At the time the phrase was coined, America was indeed exceptional. A Republic where the people had a voice rather than monarchial Europe. Nowadays? We've been copied so much that we're the rule rather than the exception. Instead, the despot monarchial types are the exception.Dilbert_X wrote:
His answer was 'Well in that case it's no more bs then any other country', so the US is hardly exceptional.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i'm not trying to polish anything. nations, ethnic and religios groups and alliances engage in assorted activities in which there's only one rule - might makes right. history is written by those who won. trying to judge or compare one nation against another based on ones personal notions of good, evil, right and wrong - let alone wikipedia - is completely idiotic. this stuff does not apply to international relations at all. the fact is there's probably no place on earth were people don't live on land conquered by their ancestors at some point. nobody has any moral supperriority in this regard, certrainly not those whos nation was the only one to actaully use nuclear weapons - and on cities full of civilians.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I hate to overquote wiki, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_historyShahter wrote:
i'm seriously trying to compare the motives behind the actions taken. those are the only thing that matters.
But as long as you aren't trying to spit-polish other countries' reputations in comparison to the US...
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Wright Brothers.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fine, put forward something which does demonstrate US exceptionalism.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
Panama Canal.
Hoover Dam.
Put a man on the moon.
Foreign aid to Africa.
America Rules. Live with it.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
for instance ?Kmar wrote:
That would be true if I carried around personal guilt for what I had no control of .. which I don't. I've read disturbing things in American history .. way more disturbing then whats been posted so far.
I say Prove it. I don't think it's BS.Dilbert_X wrote:
The only country claiming the high ground in morality is the US, which I think we've agreed is BS.I never did. I jumped in on the US vs European morality argument.
Look at WWI for instance, when it ended the heavy handed reprisals set the stage for WWII and even more carnage. When WWII Ended and we had a say in it, America's Marshall plan made for a better Europe than the previous armistice.
That was " Exceptional " in my opinion.
I think the worst thing we did was F**k over the Indians which in my opinion is no big deal, it was a War without rules and it wasn't started by the U.S. further the Indians would war with each other all the time. We were just better at it. Look at the Boer war. The successful campaigns were very similar in some instances so forget about that line of argument.
The basic fact of the matter is that we weren't around long enough. We weren't a country in the bad old days. But you still got us in the Numbers dept. if we keep score from 1776. I am not judging. There are many circumstances which make our histories differ.
Oh come on... are you forgetting the V2 ? - that was impresive !DBBrinson1 wrote:
Wright Brothers.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fine, put forward something which does demonstrate US exceptionalism.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
Panama Canal.
Hoover Dam.
Put a man on the moon.
Foreign aid to Africa.
America Rules. Live with it.
none of those things have anything to do with american exceptionalismDBBrinson1 wrote:
Wright Brothers.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fine, put forward something which does demonstrate US exceptionalism.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to compare the capacity of an industrialized power to actions committed by powers during their pre-industrial ages?
Besides which...
So yeah, Europe can go stuff it.
Panama Canal.
Hoover Dam.
Put a man on the moon.
Foreign aid to Africa.
America Rules. Live with it.
engineering feats and philanthropy aren't the point. in fact, philanthropy was often criticised by early american ideologues.
how is it that europeans know more about your nation's ideological doctrine than you yanks?
fucking retarded
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
For instance what Andrew Jackson did before he was president. It makes the trail of tears look like the Macys thanksgiving day parade.Hunter/Jumper wrote:
for instance ?Kmar wrote:
That would be true if I carried around personal guilt for what I had no control of .. which I don't. I've read disturbing things in American history .. way more disturbing then whats been posted so far.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Yes they do & No, you don't... Lightning rod, Benjamin Franklin.Uzique wrote:
none of those things have anything to do with american exceptionalismDBBrinson1 wrote:
Wright Brothers.
Panama Canal.
Hoover Dam.
Put a man on the moon.
Foreign aid to Africa.
America Rules. Live with it.
engineering feats and philanthropy aren't the point. in fact, philanthropy was often criticised by early american ideologues.
how is it that europeans know more about your nation's ideological doctrine than you yanks?
fucking retarded
Only one of those I listed above could be considered 'philanthropy' -and the rest are all about American exceptionalism ... Couldn't tell you of other countries' avation pioneers, men they landed on the moon, or building canals for other countries, not to mention big ass dam power plants.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
brinson the fucking tocqueville passage specifying what american exceptionalism is AS A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY is about 3 fucking paragraphs long. JUST. GO. AND. READ. IT. it's not fucking hard. no, no, no. american exceptionalism is not about 'exceptional' behaviour or 'exceptional' contributions to the sciences, humanities or arts by fucking americans. JESUS H. CHRIST.
has it seriously taken 6 pages of people saying "no, that's not what we're talking about"?
IT'S
THREE
PARAGRAPHS
LONG
has it seriously taken 6 pages of people saying "no, that's not what we're talking about"?
IT'S
THREE
PARAGRAPHS
LONG
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/