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Poll

Did you vote for Bush?

Yes no regrets30%30% - 61
Yes refund please7%7% - 15
No wish I had4%4% - 8
No, are you crazy?57%57% - 114
Total: 198
2006-05-08 09:59:18
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7077

atlvolunteer wrote:

whittsend wrote:

I have said it before; if every person who has said, "I would vote for a third party candidate, except they have no chance of winning..." actually proceeded to vote for a third party, the GOP and Dems would be in serious trouble.
I said almost the same thing in another thread.  It is the only way a 3rd party is going to get any credibility.  YOu would think that, with the way both the Republican and Democratic parties are going, a lot of more moderates would be jumping ship...
Something needs to be done about the Funding "Especially Early or Seed money " of politicians.
Its not really the Party that you can't compete with. Its their Overwhelming Funding and Resources.
The ability to bury or undinate a " Third Party " with advertising and Access to the media.

This wasn't the case when the primary sources of New were not Expensive Broadcasting Empires. Theodore Roosevelt comes to mind.
2006-05-08 10:10:53
Torin
Member
+52|6932

Horseman 77 wrote:

You have to admit this much.
His Legacy is not over Yet.
Correct, he has 2 more years to dig the hole even deeper.

Horseman 77 wrote:

He is a President who Acted and was not afraid to do so and bare the Consequences of his decisions good or bad.
Mostly bad, you have to admit. And the mere fact that he was not afraid, was because he knew full well no one could make him responsible for his decisions. Ultimately, that is even worse than the piss-poor decisions he did make. We don't need a psychopathic president, we need a responsible president, one who is afraid to make poor decisions because of the consequences he should have to face. This president just does whatever the hell he wants, knowing that nothing will come of it. A 34% approval rating? Oh boo hoo. That's not making him accountable. In a time where a president was impeached for getting a blowjob from an aid, I'd expect a president of GWB's calibur to be impeached 10 times over. Created a program to illegally spy on US citizens? Oh, no big deal. Carry on!

Horseman 77 wrote:

Inaction has been proved lethal to very many of our citizens.
So has action. Ask any parent who has lost a son to the "war" in Iraq.

Also, the distinction should be made between inaction when good intelligence is there, and inaction because of a lack of intelligence. Could 9/11 been prevented if he acted on the good intelligence he had? Yes. Could the situation in Iraq been prevented if he acted on good intelligence instead of bad? Yes. Actions because of bad intelligence is even worse than inaction because of a lack of intelligence. Either way you look at it, he's failed miserably when it comes to getting good intelligence and acting on it. The little good intelligence he had was ignored, and the bad intelligence was used to make even worse decisions based on it.

Horseman 77 wrote:

He will not be forgotten.
Yes, he will forever be the poster child of what not to do as the president of the united states.

Horseman 77 wrote:

I will say also say

This is the Toughest time to be president since They Fired on Fort Sumter.
Even more reason why we don't need a bumbling idiot in charge.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Pearl Harbor at least showed Roosevelt a Clear path.
If only the same could be said of 9/11.

Horseman 77 wrote:

And no matter what set backs we faced During WWII the media was
Pro American not trying to hamstring him on Behalf of the Rejected Party.
Surely the media has some bias after all the bullshit we've endured over the past 6 years, some of that is well deserved, being that he hasn't even been made accountable for half of his enormous foul-ups. Bias aside, there is still a lot more negative media coverage just based simply on the fact that he is probably one of, if not THE worst president we have ever seen, and has made some of the worst military and political decisions in the history of the country, not to mention the world.

Last edited by Torin (2006-05-08 10:12:52)

2006-05-08 10:17:33
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7077
Its is pure concejcture on your part. Look at all the things that were completely unknown to us untill just recently about WWII.

History will be his judge not you or I. That has always been my view.
2006-05-08 10:23:59
Torin
Member
+52|6932
You know what they say about how history is written.
2006-05-08 10:56:11
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7077

Torin wrote:

You know what they say about how history is written.
Not aplicable by todays standerds is it ? Unless deep inside you feel the Media can really fool you ?

Is this the case ?
2006-05-08 11:03:38
Torin
Member
+52|6932
It's not the media I'm concerned about, it's the government.
2006-05-08 11:06:29
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6998|MA, USA

Horseman 77 wrote:

Torin wrote:

You know what they say about how history is written.
Not aplicable by todays standerds is it ? Unless deep inside you feel the Media can really fool you ?

Is this the case ?
It's about as viable as implying that media saturation forces us to vote for poor candidates (as you did a few posts back); there may be some truth to it, but it isn't the whole story.
2006-05-08 12:16:04
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7077
" media saturation forces us to vote for poor candidates " Sorry not my words. Someone else ?
2006-05-09 06:48:59
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6998|MA, USA

Horseman 77 wrote:

" media saturation forces us to vote for poor candidates " Sorry not my words. Someone else ?

Horseman 77 wrote:

Its not really the Party that you can't compete with. Its their Overwhelming Funding and Resources.  The ability to bury or undinate a " Third Party " with advertising and Access to the media.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-09 07:01:22)

2006-05-09 06:58:00
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|6978|Omaha, Nebraska
Heck  no this guy has a mental disorder. (I am talking about Bush here).

^ My opinion if you don't like it keep it to yourself. I don't bash the bush lovers.

And I actually agree with you on that one Horseman...

Last edited by splixx (2006-05-09 09:03:17)

2006-05-09 07:05:41
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6998|MA, USA
What or whom are you referring to splixx?  Me?  Please tell me that you are not actually saying that people who don't like the direction our system is headed should 'keep it to themselves.'  Are you?
2006-05-09 07:12:47
Torin
Member
+52|6932
I don't see any other logical explanation for his post.

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
2006-05-09 07:18:54
RDMC
Enemy Wheelbarrow Spotted..!!
+736|6804|Area 51
No, are you crazy?
Well.. I dont even live in the US :p
2006-05-09 07:28:21
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California

Torin wrote:

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
Someone give this man a pair of tights and put an "S" on his chest!
2006-05-09 07:35:55
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

atlvolunteer wrote:

whittsend wrote:

I have said it before; if every person who has said, "I would vote for a third party candidate, except they have no chance of winning..." actually proceeded to vote for a third party, the GOP and Dems would be in serious trouble.
I said almost the same thing in another thread.  It is the only way a 3rd party is going to get any credibility.  YOu would think that, with the way both the Republican and Democratic parties are going, a lot of more moderates would be jumping ship...
It's nice to think about, but its likelyhood is still too far away to give serious consideration. At least until these parties get their act together. As weak of candidates as the Republicans and Democrats offered, Libertarians and Greens fell into the kook line, each candidate wildly disagreeing with others in their own respective parties.

The election handbook photographs taken in basements by second cousins, with agendas written exclusively in bold and italics don't help either.
2006-05-09 07:43:28
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6893

Erkut.hv wrote:

Torin wrote:

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
Someone give this man a pair of tights and put an "S" on his chest!
Sad to think that most people seem to think that it's something extraordinary to make a statement like that.  Actually, maybe it does make you a super hero... it takes more balls to stand against the system than go along with the flow.
2006-05-09 07:49:37
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Torin wrote:

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
Someone give this man a pair of tights and put an "S" on his chest!
Sad to think that most people seem to think that it's something extraordinary to make a statement like that.  Actually, maybe it does make you a super hero... it takes more balls to stand against the system than go along with the flow.
Has it come to this... not even a sympathy "lol" for a somewhat clever quip?

Plenty of people speak out, thye just get shadowed by mental patient activists.
2006-05-09 07:50:25
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Torin wrote:

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
Someone give this man a pair of tights and put an "S" on his chest!
Sad to think that most people seem to think that it's something extraordinary to make a statement like that.  Actually, maybe it does make you a super hero... it takes more balls to stand against the system than go along with the flow.
Though actually, we're really a constitutional republic.

*braces for -karma*

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-09 07:50:39)

2006-05-09 09:00:38
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7077

whittsend wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

" media saturation forces us to vote for poor candidates " Sorry not my words. Someone else ?

Horseman 77 wrote:

Its not really the Party that you can't compete with. Its their Overwhelming Funding and Resources.  The ability to bury or undinate a " Third Party " with advertising and Access to the media.
I never said " it Forces you to vote Poorly" I used the Terms Burry or undinate. You can see by these posts here that people feel a third party Vote is Reckless or Wasted They dont have the Funding To compete.
Thats how clinton got in. Perot took  a 30% of the Ultra Conservative Vote. Goldwater is another example.
2006-05-09 09:04:29
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|6978|Omaha, Nebraska

whittsend wrote:

What or whom are you referring to splixx?  Me?  Please tell me that you are not actually saying that people who don't like the direction our system is headed should 'keep it to themselves.'  Are you?
No not you I am talking about Bush... I dont like him period.

The only reason I mentioned anything else was because a few people go bezerk and start bashing with 13 year old insults.

Last edited by splixx (2006-05-09 09:06:24)

2006-05-09 09:06:22
mikkel
Member
+383|6841

Horseman 77 wrote:

You have to admit this much.
His Legacy is not over Yet.
He is a President who Acted and was not afraid to do so and bare the Consequences of his decisions good or bad.
This basically translates to "He fucked up, and he isn't afraid to continue to do so"
2006-05-09 09:06:57
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|6978|Omaha, Nebraska

mikkel wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

You have to admit this much.
His Legacy is not over Yet.
He is a President who Acted and was not afraid to do so and bare the Consequences of his decisions good or bad.
This basically translates to "He fucked up, and he isn't afraid to continue to do so"
Exactly....
2006-05-09 09:16:03
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6998|MA, USA

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

It's nice to think about, but its likelyhood is still too far away to give serious consideration.
By believing that, you help make it so.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

As weak of candidates as the Republicans and Democrats offered, Libertarians and Greens fell into the kook line, each candidate wildly disagreeing with others in their own respective parties.
I can't speak for the Greens, but libertairians don't have too many issues on which they 'wildly disagree' with each other, and I don't consider them to be 'kooks'.  At least (in either case), no more so than either of the 'main' parties.

Horseman 77 wrote:

I never said " it Forces you to vote Poorly" I used the Terms Burry or undinate. You can see by these posts here that people feel a third party Vote is Reckless or Wasted They dont have the Funding To compete.
Thats how clinton got in. Perot took  a 30% of the Ultra Conservative Vote. Goldwater is another example.
And I never said that you said anything.  I said you 'implied' it - which you did.  Regardless, I hereby declare that my use of the word 'force' was a poor choice.  I should have used the word 'encourage.'

Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-09 09:24:26)

2006-05-09 10:15:08
Torin
Member
+52|6932

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Torin wrote:

I will not give up my freedom of speech, no matter what anyone says. So long as there is injustice in the system, so long as our country's leaders are heading in the wrong direction, for the wrong reasons, I will have something to say about it. I will not give up what few aspects of democracy are left in this democracy, I refuse.
Someone give this man a pair of tights and put an "S" on his chest!
Sad to think that most people seem to think that it's something extraordinary to make a statement like that.  Actually, maybe it does make you a super hero... it takes more balls to stand against the system than go along with the flow.
Nothing extraordinary about it, even to relate such a word to the act of exercising your basic freedoms is what is sad. When making use of your right to free speech to speak out against a broken system becomes extraordinary, I'll move to Canada. True enough that not nearly enough people do it. People have just become so accustomed to going with with flow and just letitng things like this happen, which is exactly why we're in this predicament to begin with.

The people are the ones who are supposed to be keeping the government in check, but nowadays most people are satisfied with leaving that up to the occasionally congressional investigation, and accepting whatever happens with no questions asked.

If only people stood up to the NSA spying program like they did to the Monica Lewinsky scandal, we could have progress. But sadly, people are more concerned with the president's ethics on sexual relationships outside of marriage than they are with violation of basic constritutional rights.
2006-05-09 10:33:53
IRONxWyvern
Member
+14|7080|Atlanta, GA
I think that a viable third party may be viable at some point in the near future.  I know both Democrats and Republicans who are disgusted with their parties (Myself included) but who will not join the other party.  I think the Libertarian movement has the best shot, and they are gaining ground every year,  As more and more asshats rear their ugly heads in the two dominant parties, I think the Electorate will eventually become so disgusted that they will leave in droves (At least that is my fervent wish.)

The Republican party was a third party 150 years ago, and I believe that there are significant historical examples of some thrid party candidates doing very well, Teddy Roosevelt and the Bull Moose Party, Ross Perot in 92 won 19% of the vote, Jack Anderson in 1980, and many more.  Sure there are obstacles to overcoming the ruling parties, but eventually, at the rate they are going, they both will self-destruct and someone will step forward with a message that resonates with the people.  I think we will see this happen sooner, rather than later, hopefully within the next 10 years.

 

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