It's not racist. It describes white folks who live out in the country. It's more like a watered down version of the word 'white trash', although that word can have other meanings tooghettoperson wrote:
Call me ignorant, but why is redneck a racist term? Not being American and all that, I wouldn't know, but I was under the impression it was just for ignorant people that talk funny. I don't exactly see where race comes into that?
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If they are so "oppressed", could you please explain why they are pouring in over the borders everyday?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
So the way to be a good American is to CONFORM to society. Duly noted.
We have a history of oppressing immigrants here in America. Chinese, Irish, Mexican, Italian, Mexican again, Arabs. I think we here in the forums should have some sort of prize-pool for the first person to guess the ethnicity of the next immigrants we oppress.
And yes in order to be a good American you should conform to the society of which you are joining, explain why society should conform to YOU instead. In other words if you don't like our way of life, leave!
It should be sung in english because it isn't word for word the same in spanish, they added some lines or altered some part of it.
English is the national language & should be a requirment that you have rudmentry skills with it to enter the country to live.
If the illegals want to become citizens then they should all be registered with a ss no# & pay taxes like everyone else, not take advantage of the system & social services which they contribute nothing too.
Problem solved, we will need them for the work force in the future, so everyone saying "ship'em back" has no idea of whats going on in the big picture.
English is the national language & should be a requirment that you have rudmentry skills with it to enter the country to live.
If the illegals want to become citizens then they should all be registered with a ss no# & pay taxes like everyone else, not take advantage of the system & social services which they contribute nothing too.
Problem solved, we will need them for the work force in the future, so everyone saying "ship'em back" has no idea of whats going on in the big picture.
i agree with everything you said but.........TrollmeaT wrote:
It should be sung in english because it isn't word for word the same in spanish, they added some lines or altered some part of it.
English is the national language & should be a requirment that you have rudmentry skills with it to enter the country to live.
If the illegals want to become citizens then they should all be registered with a ss no# & pay taxes like everyone else, not take advantage of the system & social services which they contribute nothing too.
Problem solved, we will need them for the work force in the future, so everyone saying "ship'em back" has no idea of whats going on in the big picture.
why would we need them in the future?
Are you saying we CAN'T live without the burdon illegal aliens put on the social services this country is supposed to be providing for legitiment residents. Also burdoning hospitals and schools since WE and not illegal aliens, are paying for their visits to both.
Or maybe you are saying we CAN'T live without higher insurance premiums because as soon as an illegal allien gets in an auto accident they flee and have no insurance.
Maybe you are saying we CAN'T live without having legitiment residents of this country having their wages artificially lowered because an "illegal alien" has taken the job. ( don't give me that crap that illegal aliens only do jobs that Americans won't ). Their are plenty of Americans who are in construction who could use the work. Not all illegals aliens are in the fields picking tomatoes.
I bet you mean we CAN'T live without the taxpayers giving free rides in the form of medical care and education.
The only positive thing research is showing is that illegal aliens are not causing an increase in crime rates in the areas that they have invaded. there is a theory that this because the illegal aliens do not want to come out and have attention drawn to them. Also why would they have to commit a crime while they are enjoying a FREE LUNCH?
We might need them in the form of American citizens.....but we don't need them, in any way shape or form, as illegal aliens.
Last edited by lowing (2006-05-07 05:38:32)
When people use the Words Redneck, Cracker etc. as derogatory terms for a people they look down on, It is meant as a Racist insult. Would you ever call a Negro or Oriental person a redneck? Its like a Caucasian person using the word "nigger" It should be beneath us all.Spearhead wrote:
It's not racist. It describes white folks who live out in the country. It's more like a watered down version of the word 'white trash', although that word can have other meanings tooghettoperson wrote:
Call me ignorant, but why is redneck a racist term? Not being American and all that, I wouldn't know, but I was under the impression it was just for ignorant people that talk funny. I don't exactly see where race comes into that?
So, middle-class black folks use the word 'nigger' to describe poor black folks? No, 'nigger' and 'red neck' are on two completely seperate scales, dude. I'm white, fyi.Horseman 77 wrote:
When people use the Words Redneck, Cracker etc. as derogatory terms for a people they look down on, It is meant as a Racist insult. Would you ever call a Negro or Oriental person a redneck? Its like a Caucasian person using the word "nigger" It should be beneath us all.Spearhead wrote:
It's not racist. It describes white folks who live out in the country. It's more like a watered down version of the word 'white trash', although that word can have other meanings tooghettoperson wrote:
Call me ignorant, but why is redneck a racist term? Not being American and all that, I wouldn't know, but I was under the impression it was just for ignorant people that talk funny. I don't exactly see where race comes into that?
While it can have prejudiced intentions, the word red neck is often used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. It is hardly racist (I'm white, pfft? you just confused me) or prejudiced. 'White trash' is a better example of prejudiced. 'Red neck' describes the culture.
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-05-07 16:04:36)
In your opinion on your scale, noted:Spearhead wrote:
So, middle-class black folks use the word 'nigger' to describe poor black folks? No, 'nigger' and 'red neck' are on two completely seperate scales, dude. I'm white, fyi.Horseman 77 wrote:
When people use the Words Redneck, Cracker etc. as derogatory terms for a people they look down on, It is meant as a Racist insult. Would you ever call a Negro or Oriental person a redneck? Its like a Caucasian person using the word "nigger" It should be beneath us all.Spearhead wrote:
It's not racist. It describes white folks who live out in the country. It's more like a watered down version of the word 'white trash', although that word can have other meanings too
While it can have prejudiced intentions, the word red neck is often used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. It is hardly racist (I'm white, pfft? you just confused me) or prejudiced. 'White trash' is a better example of prejudiced. 'Red neck' describes the culture.
I don't use either. It was and Remains beneath me. Do as you see fit however.
Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-05-07 16:45:56)
Ok, I will refrain from using it anymore on these forums, sorry about that.Horseman 77 wrote:
In your opinion on your scale, noted:Spearhead wrote:
So, middle-class black folks use the word 'nigger' to describe poor black folks? No, 'nigger' and 'red neck' are on two completely seperate scales, dude. I'm white, fyi.Horseman 77 wrote:
When people use the Words Redneck, Cracker etc. as derogatory terms for a people they look down on, It is meant as a Racist insult. Would you ever call a Negro or Oriental person a redneck? Its like a Caucasian person using the word "nigger" It should be beneath us all.
While it can have prejudiced intentions, the word red neck is often used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. It is hardly racist (I'm white, pfft? you just confused me) or prejudiced. 'White trash' is a better example of prejudiced. 'Red neck' describes the culture.
I don't use either. It was and Remains beneath me. Do as you see fit however.
I may be pulling the Thread astray but isn't a "True society defined by its culture " ?lowing wrote:
If they are so "oppressed", could you please explain why they are pouring in over the borders everyday?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
So the way to be a good American is to CONFORM to society. Duly noted.
We have a history of oppressing immigrants here in America. Chinese, Irish, Mexican, Italian, Mexican again, Arabs. I think we here in the forums should have some sort of prize-pool for the first person to guess the ethnicity of the next immigrants we oppress.
And yes in order to be a good American you should conform to the society of which you are joining, explain why society should conform to YOU instead. In other words if you don't like our way of life, leave!
You cant really have a multi cultural society. So in Some form they must conform or Change us.
I always thought we all agreed that was a Benefit to the Country as a whole.
The way it can flex and adapt to bring in new people.
This country has thrived on this type of acceptance of others, no ?
We need them don't we. We always have. They bring and cause problems but we all have.
The term redneck was originally used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. However, now it is generally used as an insult.Spearhead wrote:
While it can have prejudiced intentions, the word red neck is often used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. It is hardly racist (I'm white, pfft? you just confused me) or prejudiced. 'White trash' is a better example of prejudiced. 'Red neck' describes the culture.
Where I live, it isn't used as an insult, at least not more than it is used to describe southern people. Again, sorry. I did not intend for it to be an insult.atlvolunteer wrote:
The term redneck was originally used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. However, now it is generally used as an insult.Spearhead wrote:
While it can have prejudiced intentions, the word red neck is often used to describe white, southern people who live out in the country. It is hardly racist (I'm white, pfft? you just confused me) or prejudiced. 'White trash' is a better example of prejudiced. 'Red neck' describes the culture.
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-05-07 17:09:47)
not saying you did and no insult taken.Spearhead wrote:
Where I live, it isn't used as an insult, at least not more than it is used to describe southern people. Again, sorry. I did not intend for it to be an insult.
By the way, whoever -1'd me because "I oppose the death penalty",
1. Just because you are a lawyer who does death penalty appeal cases does not mean you oppose the death penalty. My dad (who is a democrat, and is against the death penalty) has co-workers who are republican, including his boss, who personally knows Jeb Bush.
2. My dad does not want murderers out on the street. He is doing his job as an attorney and as a citizen of the United States. Because of the constitution, every, and I mean EVERY person gets a fair trial. Even if it was someone like Adolf Hitler, or Suddam Hussein. Or, a crazy lunatic pycho, which my dad does go to death row every month or two to see. Now, as for his personal beliefs, to him it is an accomplishment to lower the prisoners sentence to life, instead of death. He's been doing this 6 years, and he has yet to be successful.
I don't care if you -1 me because I oppose the death penalty, which I do, but please don't -1 me because I mentioned that my dad does death penalty appeals.
1. Just because you are a lawyer who does death penalty appeal cases does not mean you oppose the death penalty. My dad (who is a democrat, and is against the death penalty) has co-workers who are republican, including his boss, who personally knows Jeb Bush.
2. My dad does not want murderers out on the street. He is doing his job as an attorney and as a citizen of the United States. Because of the constitution, every, and I mean EVERY person gets a fair trial. Even if it was someone like Adolf Hitler, or Suddam Hussein. Or, a crazy lunatic pycho, which my dad does go to death row every month or two to see. Now, as for his personal beliefs, to him it is an accomplishment to lower the prisoners sentence to life, instead of death. He's been doing this 6 years, and he has yet to be successful.
I don't care if you -1 me because I oppose the death penalty, which I do, but please don't -1 me because I mentioned that my dad does death penalty appeals.
I agree whites are next on the opressed list. Listen to rap. They hate cops and white people in general. The ignorence of rap and the "Hood" is just going to get worse and worse. Sadly a civil war is close, not very close but in a few years. Its just what will trigger it. Now it wont last long but alot of people will die. For example listen to "Riden' Dirty."
I feel when you move here you are doing so with knowledge that Americans expect a certain behavior from everyone. You should adopt the morality of the society of which you are a part of. Tolerance is part of our society, but it should only stretch so far. Americans has accommodated every culture on earth. Even the cultures that are engaged in war with us. There is a point where you have to say enough! Every new comer to America can not expect to be completely accepted without doing alittle accepting of their own.Horseman 77 wrote:
I may be pulling the Thread astray but isn't a "True society defined by its culture " ?lowing wrote:
If they are so "oppressed", could you please explain why they are pouring in over the borders everyday?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
So the way to be a good American is to CONFORM to society. Duly noted.
We have a history of oppressing immigrants here in America. Chinese, Irish, Mexican, Italian, Mexican again, Arabs. I think we here in the forums should have some sort of prize-pool for the first person to guess the ethnicity of the next immigrants we oppress.
And yes in order to be a good American you should conform to the society of which you are joining, explain why society should conform to YOU instead. In other words if you don't like our way of life, leave!
You cant really have a multi cultural society. So in Some form they must conform or Change us.
I always thought we all agreed that was a Benefit to the Country as a whole.
The way it can flex and adapt to bring in new people.
This country has thrived on this type of acceptance of others, no ?
We need them don't we. We always have. They bring and cause problems but we all have.
They are oppressed? Oppressed? Do you know the meaning of oppressed? Oppressed?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
So the way to be a good American is to CONFORM to society. Duly noted.
We have a history of oppressing immigrants here in America. Chinese, Irish, Mexican, Italian, Mexican again, Arabs. I think we here in the forums should have some sort of prize-pool for the first person to guess the ethnicity of the next immigrants we oppress.
M-w.com defines oppressed as:
1 : to crush or burden by abuse of power or authority
2 : to burden spiritually or mentally : weigh heavily upon
So lets break this down: Crushed or bruden. Illegals? How are the crushed or brudened? To limit that, how are they crushed or burdened by the abuse of power/authority? Oppressed? The lower and middle class of US citizens are more oppressed then the illegals. They have to pay taxes, pay for doctor bills, etc.
Now let's flip the script, how have illegals oppressed Americans?
1. Higher taxes
2. Higher medical cost
3. Lower average income
4. Lost of jobs
5. Forced to learn a new language because of the illegals who do not want to learn English
Yep, we oppress the illegals here in America. Have you ever heard of the cause in Arizona, where an illegal (someone who does not have legal rights in US courts) sue a former member of the Mintueman movement, and won 200 acres of land? They illegally send their children to our schools and not have to pay for it. They go get goverment aid (once again the should not legally be able to do this.), but we are oppressing them. Ken, are they really oppressed, or is this something that you heard in a left wing, Tom Kennedy, Michael Moore, speach that you thought was a good point?
So lets break down the list of how Americans are oppressed by illegals.
1. Higher Taxes
Where to start, how about school systems? Americans pays for public schools via taxes. There are school taxes on almost every utility bill that you pay, just look under taxes. Locally, we pay school taxes on our electric bill, phone bill, cable bill, and it is taken out of my paycheck. So, the goverment gets X amount of dollars, illegals send their children to our schools, therefore this said amount of money has to be spread through out the school to teach all the children there. Since the illegals do not pay taxes, I have to pay for their share of the public schooling. Also, more money is spent to teach the children of illegals English, so that they can communicate in the American society. This cost extra money to do this. The government has two options, raise taxes to do this, or spend more of the X amount of money on thie project. If they choose the later, they take resources (money, time, teachers) from other students. Most state governments choose the later, therefore the students that speak English already get a lower quaility of teaching because their resourced have been spent elsewhere. You did say oppressed right?
2. Higher Medical Cost
In the US, a hospital can not turn you away, there are laws to make for sure this does not happen. If you owe them a lot of money, they can not turn you away either. So to make up for the lost in money, most hospitals will raise the cost of medicial aid for other people. Drug companies also increase their price to compensate for the same reason. Illegals take advantage of this "benefit" because they can not be tracked. They do not exist to our government, so they can not be sued. (As stated before, if this was the other way around, illegal vs. John Doe, the illegal is supported by the court.) Are they oppressed still?
3. Lower average income
Since illegals can not be give the traditional pay check, remember they do not exist to our government, they are usally paid "under the table" so to speak. This is usally in cash, and the illegals do not have to pay taxes because they are not given the traditional pay check. This then causes an issue with a legal citizen. If they choose to get a job in the same field, they have to take a lower pay. The man in charge see it this way, I pay the illegals X amount, if you can not do the job for that amount then I do not need you. The legal citizen, says okay because they have bills to pay and stomachs that need to be filled. Overall the illegal is actually paid more in the long run. Since they do not pay taxes, they get 100% of the money, where a legal citizen gets maybe 85-90% of the money since some of it goes to Uncle Sam. This lowers the average wadge for the job overall. Who is oppressed now?
4. Lost of Jobs
This sort of goes with number 3. The legal citizen chooses to not work the same job for a cheap labor. As stated above, because they do not get 100% of the money, so they need to make more. "The man" choose to not pay that amount and then hires an illegal alien. Another lost job. Most of the people in favor of making the illegals legal state that the illegals take jobs that a legal citizen does not. This is not true, it may have been true a few years ago, but it is not true today. Most illegals have moved up from farming. They are no in construction, fast food industry, and other jobs that require little or no schooling at all. These jobs can be done by legal citizens who are currently unemployeed, but there bossman will not hire the legal citizen because he does not need them, and that they cost him to much. They do not have to pay Social Security, insurance, etc for the illegal. Yea, I can see how illegals are oppressed Ken.
5. Forced to learn a new language because of the illegals who do not want to learn English
This one gets me more then any of the above. Because they pretend/do not know English, illegals try to get away with more things. Some cause trouble and act like they do not know English so that they are not punished for their actions. Personally I have seen an illegal steal a case of beer. The cashier was yelling at the man to stop, but he acted as he did not understand her then continues out the door with the said beer. I have many stories like this, it happens all the time. I was also in a debate before that stated that we should learn Spanish, because there are no other English speaking nations near Mexico. (FYI: Belize is an English speaking nation). The people from China do not have any English speaking nation near them, but everyone in not learning Chinese just for them are they? Here the illegals are not only oppressing Americans, but they are oppressing people from other nations who are coming to America legally. The people trying to become American citizens now have to learn two languages, instead of one. So are illegals still oppressed?
To finish my book, illegals are not being oppressed. This is something that is based on particial, bias, or no facts at all. They are not oppress, if you look at the all of the facts, they are oppressing the American citizen.
*Dubbs ends rant, and passes out*
I didn't read the whole second page of this thread because there was just too much stupidity for me to trudge through.
1. If you're going to make language an issue, at least be able to spell in English you self-righteous bastards. "Rudmentry" and "burdon" are not words in any language I know. If I spell a word wrong it is because I suck at typing, not English, a lot of legal american citizens on this board seem to suck at english and frankly I'm tired of having the Dutch speak/write better than us (they're insanely good for the most part).
2. A lot of "illegal" immigrants do pay taxes one way or another. Also, the suggestion has been made that they are a burden to our social programs and crowd our hopsitals. What kind of scared-ass illegal mexican is going to check themself into a hospital, and even if they do, this ain't canada, we don't automatically pay for it. How many illegals can really collect welfare or unemployment? This seems like a bullshit conspiracy theory.
3. They can't retain their cultural identity or be proud of their native land? Hell, in Boston they made up a holiday to give people St. Patrick's Day off, and you better believe people fly the Irish flag.
4. They are here illegally because waiting to coem here legally would mean never coming at all. Even if you are here legally it takes an average of 18 years to get family members left behind here. When my people came here they didn't have the tight quotas and restrictions they have now, and we got in. But you better believe if the choice was between sneaking in or going back to a really bad situation they'd have risked it.
5. Another thing no one seems to understand- beign born here=citizenship. That means there are tons of illegal parents with legal kids, and I shouldn't have to tell you that splitting up families is a bad and borerline immoral idea. The cost of building a wall and rounding up ten million people and patrolling the borders is too outrageous and impractical considering it wouldn't even be successful, reform is the best answer to the immigrant question.
6. Concerning the alternate spanish anthem, "nuestro himno", the words are completely different because a literal translation would be too hard and the subject matter is also different. It is simply a way for spanish-speakers to express pride in the United States and I see nothing wrong with it. Also, I love the anthem but to be honest it's alarmingly militaristic, boring as hell and damn near impossible to sing. Those are it's faults as a song (most americans including myself do feel a sense of attachment to the song, a sort of ballpark olympic-raising type pride that's tough to explain). Just because someone wrote a song praising the USA in spanish doesn't mean you have to act like someone slapped your mother in the face.
1. If you're going to make language an issue, at least be able to spell in English you self-righteous bastards. "Rudmentry" and "burdon" are not words in any language I know. If I spell a word wrong it is because I suck at typing, not English, a lot of legal american citizens on this board seem to suck at english and frankly I'm tired of having the Dutch speak/write better than us (they're insanely good for the most part).
2. A lot of "illegal" immigrants do pay taxes one way or another. Also, the suggestion has been made that they are a burden to our social programs and crowd our hopsitals. What kind of scared-ass illegal mexican is going to check themself into a hospital, and even if they do, this ain't canada, we don't automatically pay for it. How many illegals can really collect welfare or unemployment? This seems like a bullshit conspiracy theory.
3. They can't retain their cultural identity or be proud of their native land? Hell, in Boston they made up a holiday to give people St. Patrick's Day off, and you better believe people fly the Irish flag.
4. They are here illegally because waiting to coem here legally would mean never coming at all. Even if you are here legally it takes an average of 18 years to get family members left behind here. When my people came here they didn't have the tight quotas and restrictions they have now, and we got in. But you better believe if the choice was between sneaking in or going back to a really bad situation they'd have risked it.
5. Another thing no one seems to understand- beign born here=citizenship. That means there are tons of illegal parents with legal kids, and I shouldn't have to tell you that splitting up families is a bad and borerline immoral idea. The cost of building a wall and rounding up ten million people and patrolling the borders is too outrageous and impractical considering it wouldn't even be successful, reform is the best answer to the immigrant question.
6. Concerning the alternate spanish anthem, "nuestro himno", the words are completely different because a literal translation would be too hard and the subject matter is also different. It is simply a way for spanish-speakers to express pride in the United States and I see nothing wrong with it. Also, I love the anthem but to be honest it's alarmingly militaristic, boring as hell and damn near impossible to sing. Those are it's faults as a song (most americans including myself do feel a sense of attachment to the song, a sort of ballpark olympic-raising type pride that's tough to explain). Just because someone wrote a song praising the USA in spanish doesn't mean you have to act like someone slapped your mother in the face.
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