BF2S Forums High taxes = yay

Mekstizzle wrote:

jord wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.

The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.

The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?

Either pancake bunny or true apathy.

No, because if it did all that meant is that I wanted (or 'needed') more money. So that means I want/need a better salary. I can't really complain about inheritance being taxed, it's all just a bonus after the grief of losing a relative anyway, I can't see myself getting all worked up over amounts of money in situations like that.

What the money is spent on or wasted is a different thing from just wanting lower taxes for the sake of wanting more money. Just because I don't care about taxes much doesn't mean I don't care about how it's spent. Infact for most people it's the other way round, they don't give a shit about how the money is spent but they always give a shit about how much money they're losing via tax.

Get a fucking better job if you really want more money.

Okay so your answer to millions of people that want lower taxes is "get a better job"..?

Okie dokey.

jord wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

jord wrote:

The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?

Either pancake bunny or true apathy.

No, because if it did all that meant is that I wanted (or 'needed') more money. So that means I want/need a better salary. I can't really complain about inheritance being taxed, it's all just a bonus after the grief of losing a relative anyway, I can't see myself getting all worked up over amounts of money in situations like that.

What the money is spent on or wasted is a different thing from just wanting lower taxes for the sake of wanting more money. Just because I don't care about taxes much doesn't mean I don't care about how it's spent. Infact for most people it's the other way round, they don't give a shit about how the money is spent but they always give a shit about how much money they're losing via tax.

Get a fucking better job if you really want more money.

Okay so your answer to millions of people that want lower taxes is "get a better job"..?

Okie dokey.

My answer to millions of people that want more money is get a better job, or a raise or promotion, that's a pretty logical answer isn't it. Infact it's already how the world works anyway. There's more people out there who know it's like that than people who think high taxes are the cause of all their woes.

That's all I'm saying. People need to put their lifestyle into perspective.

jord wrote:

Having more disposible income isn't the only argument against higher taxes. Its been said above, why should a government that is largely inefficient, squanders fucking Billions and already has quite a high tax rate to work off of be entitled to take more of peoples hard earned money? I know it sounds Americanised, but you really do need to question every aspect of government and not simply agree with them taking a higher percentage of YOUR money.

You keep saying my money, them taking it and why should they. All these things merely point to the fact that people want more money. So it is only ever about having more disposable income whatever way you try to slant it, it really is the only argument when you boil things down.
It's ok, I know we're all greedy bastards, well most us. You can admit it too.

Even when people say the government waste money and all that, they only say that because it gives them a reason to want less tax and thus more personal money. Some don't bother with that sort of talk, some just want the extra money either way. It all points to the same thing at the end of the day. I don't know why people don't want to admit it. It's funny how in society greed is simultaneously encouraged and put down.

I've never understood tax as being my money. For most people, it's not like they can even choose to not pay tax it's just automatically deducted. So you never had it, so it's almost arbitrary to call it yours. It's hard for me to imagine something as mines which I never had. It's just how I've always seen it.

Money is just fucking money

Harmor wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Harmor wrote:

High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples.  You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.

Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.

Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P

But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.

I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of living.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the United States is in the top 10:

   1.  Norway (
   2.  Iceland (↑ 5)
   3.  Australia (
   4.  Luxembourg (↑ 11)
   5.  Canada (↓ 1)
   6.  Sweden (↓ 4)
   7.  Switzerland (↑ 4)
   8.  Ireland (↑ 2)
   9.  Belgium (↓ 3)
  10.  United States (↓ 2)
  11.  Japan (↓ 2)
  12.  Netherlands (↓ 7)
  13.  Finland (
  14.  Denmark (↑ 3)
  15.  United Kingdom (↓ 3)
  16.  France (
  17.  Austria (↓ 3)
  18.  Italy (↑ 3)
  19.  New Zealand (↓ 1)
  20.  Germany (↓ 1)
  21.  Spain (↓ 1)
  22.  Hong Kong (↑ 1)
  23.  Israel (↓ 1)
  24.  Greece (
  25.  Singapore (
  26.  Slovenia (↑ 1)
  27.  Portugal (↓ 1)
  28.  South Korea (
  29.  Cyprus (↑ 1)
  30.  Barbados (↓ 1)

Source: http://skeptically.org/economics/id21.html


How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list?  Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?

The HDI is a better ranking system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

The most recent report was released about a year ago.



Iceland will continue to fall down the ranking system because the stats used in this HDI are from 2007.  The financial meltdown happened in 2009, so this won't be reflected until the 2011 report comes out next year.  The 2010 report should be coming out very soon.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-10-02 11:21:30)

HollisHurlbut wrote:

Iceland = Paradise.

lol, that's a funny if I ever heard one.

Phrozenbot wrote:

"Correlation does not imply causation"

good point

No, but it means your argument is weak. I have never been to Europe, so I have no personal experience about the UK and the countries you compare them too, but I assume it has to do more with the UKs domestic issues more so than high taxes. Who is more of a welfare state?

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-10-03 16:22:06)

Turquoise wrote:

Harmor wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.

I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of living.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the United States is in the top 10:

   1.  Norway (
   2.  Iceland (↑ 5)
   3.  Australia (
   4.  Luxembourg (↑ 11)
   5.  Canada (↓ 1)
   6.  Sweden (↓ 4)
   7.  Switzerland (↑ 4)
   8.  Ireland (↑ 2)
   9.  Belgium (↓ 3)
  10.  United States (↓ 2)
  11.  Japan (↓ 2)
  12.  Netherlands (↓ 7)
  13.  Finland (
  14.  Denmark (↑ 3)
  15.  United Kingdom (↓ 3)
  16.  France (
  17.  Austria (↓ 3)
  18.  Italy (↑ 3)
  19.  New Zealand (↓ 1)
  20.  Germany (↓ 1)
  21.  Spain (↓ 1)
  22.  Hong Kong (↑ 1)
  23.  Israel (↓ 1)
  24.  Greece (
  25.  Singapore (
  26.  Slovenia (↑ 1)
  27.  Portugal (↓ 1)
  28.  South Korea (
  29.  Cyprus (↑ 1)
  30.  Barbados (↓ 1)

Source: http://skeptically.org/economics/id21.html


How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list?  Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?

The HDI is a better ranking system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

The most recent report was released about a year ago.

http://i51.tinypic.com/314rnmv.jpg

Iceland will continue to fall down the ranking system because the stats used in this HDI are from 2007.  The financial meltdown happened in 2009, so this won't be reflected until the 2011 report comes out next year.  The 2010 report should be coming out very soon.

These list are always stupid when people use them in internet "debates".

'zomg Norway is better than the United states because our HDI is 0.015 higher than theirs lololol.'

It's really really stupid. The living standard of all of those countries is far above the majority of the world's population and all countries have people living in poverty_{relative to their countries}.

So meh.

If you actually read most of my post you would realize I don't care for any of those things nor do I really care all that much for this 'America fuck yeah' type thing.

My point was: our way of life is very close and very far above the rest of the world. List like these are stupid when people use them to try to make some nationalistic point or to 'take down American ego'. The 0.015 between the U.S. And the top country is so small it doesn't really mean much of a difference.

And I don't think America really needs to 'change' or 'keep up' with the countries higher on the list. My way of life is pretty comfortable as is the vast majority of most Americans. Whether we close that 0.015 gap between us and the #1 spot means nil to me or most people.

But whatever makes you guys feel better about yourselves go for it.

Australia is in my top 3 places to emmigrate to, I don't think that internet list would be too annoying. Though I get the principle of going against it.

Turquoise wrote:

jord wrote:

Australia is in my top 3 places to emmigrate to, I don't think that internet list would be too annoying. Though I get the principle of going against it.

Well, both Australia and New Zealand have conformist tendencies that bother me.  New Zealand even recently passed some law that more or less outlawed criticism of their government.

Canada seems to have a better grasp of the balance between individualism and community that is needed for both a high level of personal freedom while still having high quality public amenities.

I don't know as much about Norway's culture, but it looks like they might be more individualistic than Australia as well.

Sweden is another country that looks alluring, but the recent handling of Lars Vilks's Mohammed cartoon controversy is a bit disturbing.  Sweden seems to be a bit politically correct regarding offenses against Islam.

Granted, even America is showing signs of that with the way we handled Pastor Jones's Koran burning threat.

New zealand is also in my top 3. I rate English speaking countries with decent weather and good firearms laws quite highly it seems.

Turquoise wrote:

jord wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, both Australia and New Zealand have conformist tendencies that bother me.  New Zealand even recently passed some law that more or less outlawed criticism of their government.

Canada seems to have a better grasp of the balance between individualism and community that is needed for both a high level of personal freedom while still having high quality public amenities.

I don't know as much about Norway's culture, but it looks like they might be more individualistic than Australia as well.

Sweden is another country that looks alluring, but the recent handling of Lars Vilks's Mohammed cartoon controversy is a bit disturbing.  Sweden seems to be a bit politically correct regarding offenses against Islam.

Granted, even America is showing signs of that with the way we handled Pastor Jones's Koran burning threat.

New zealand is also in my top 3. I rate English speaking countries with decent weather and good firearms laws quite highly it seems.

What's their policy on firearms?

To put it in the simplest way, somewhere between America and the UK.

ghettoperson wrote:

EDIT: @FEOS

I'm sure there are, hence why it was an example. How about you debate the topic and stop getting all worked up because I offended your military industrial complex? This was this first thing that came to mind that we don't need to be spending money on that other countries on that list don't spend money on.

Pretty sure I've been debating the topic this entire time, ghetto.

Go back and read what I wrote. It had nothing to do with "offending (my) MIB". It had to do with the silly notion that the bulk of the fat is in those two wars. It simply isn't. That's a failed argument from the start. The overall US federal budget is over $1T. The cost of the wars is ~$120B per year. Even if we didn't spend another dime on the wars, there would still be over $1T in the US federal budget to deal with.

Again...a drop in the bucket. The source of our budgetary problem are massive unfunded liabilities in the form of social programs like social security and medicare/obamacare.