Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England
Senate Democrats are poised to take up a bill Monday that they describe as "a carrot and stick approach" to stopping American companies from shipping jobs overseas.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., announced he will force all members to show up for a rare live quorum Monday night to debate the Democrats' outsourcing bill, this ahead of a key vote Tuesday to determine the bill's fate.

But it is unlikely to garner bipartisan support with Republicans decrying the move as a last minute ploy to score political points and rev up a liberal base that appears to be experiencing an enthusiasm gap when measured against the GOP.

Still, Democrats insisted Friday that though there is likely only one week left on the legislative calendar, their effort is genuine.

"This is the most important issue, jobs," Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., lead sponsor of the bill, told reporters. "We feel there's a greater sense of urgency at this moment" to try to make "a clear statement" about jobs.

"It's focused. It's not expensive," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said, adding that, "I wouldn't regard it as a fait accompli that no Republican will vote for it."Schumer touted his two-year payroll tax holiday in the bill as a "carrot" for companies to bring jobs back to the U.S. and eliminate positions overseas. "We're not trying to kick anybody," he said. "We're just trying to bring jobs back."

Another co-sponsor, Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., added a "stick" provision that taxes goods that are returned to the U.S. for sale when the manufacturer of those goods has closed a business in America in order to move abroad.

Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., blasted the majority for wasting time saying, "this bill will do nothing to create jobs in the United States. Most of the factories the Durbin bill is trying to prevent from moving overseas are not traveling overseas to sell back into the American market, but are moving there to gain competitive advantage over foreign companies in foreign markets - and in doing so create more jobs and more opportunity right here in the United States."

One senior GOP leadership aide said, "Democrats couldn't wrestle their members to the ground on the (Bush) tax cuts, so here we go with another 'reelect Harry Reid' bill."

Republicans have cited a recent string of bills Reid has pulled to the floor this work period that do not enjoy bipartisan support, either for substantive or process reasons, like the immigration legislation called the Dream Act, campaign finance reform known as the Disclose Act, and a repeal of the military's policy on gays serving openly.

Reid had tried to rally his caucus around a pre-election vote to extend only tax cuts for the middle class, but deep divisions and a recalcitrant minority proved too great an obstacle. "We shouldn't be giving corporations tax breaks for moving jobs overseas," cried Reid Friday, as he faces an uphill re-election against a tea party-backed opponent hammering him for the sky-high jobless rate in his state.

McConnell also hit Democrats for increasing the deficit by what he said was $1 billion, according to an analysis he says the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation gave his office.

For his part, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., admitted an increase in the deficit, but he said it's worth it. "What's at stake here are thousands of jobs across America...a very small price to pay to turn this tide," Durbin retorted, citing a price tag of $720 million over 10 years.

"We want to export our products and not our jobs," Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., told reporters.

Ticking off county after county in his state that is hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs, Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, said the bill makes "common sense" changes in the law for "re-shoring" jobs.

And Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who has fought hard for a manufacturing focus in Congress, along with Brown, was at pains to say why Democrats had waited so late in the year to bring up this legislation. "The time is a long overdue for companies to start reinvesting in jobs in America."

Sanders seemed to lay the loss of manufacturing jobs at the feet of a previous president, "During the Bush administration alone...we lost more than 4.5 million manufacturing jobs, nearly 30% of the total." He also noted that the country has the fewest number of manufacturing jobs since World War II.
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/ … z10VUaXHUM

Well, for all Americans really. Kind of. But not really. I love protectionism... it's so... refreshingly quaint.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
How about we make companies which fire Americans and hire Chinese to pay the unemployment benefits of those they fire?
Would make more sense than effectively giving them a subsidy by paying benefit out of taxes.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

How about we make companies which fire Americans and hire Chinese to pay the unemployment benefits of those they fire?
Would make more sense than effectively giving them a subsidy by paying benefit out of taxes.
They already do pay their unemployment benefits...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA
Protectionism never works...they'll never learn.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...they'll never learn.
You can mouth the words, but do you understand why it doesn't work?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA

JohnG@lt wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...they'll never learn.
You can mouth the words, but do you understand why it doesn't work?
As a mater of fact yes:

When you put up trade barriers you make your work force less competitive and the products they produce are more expensive for everyone (lowering the lifestyle of your population).

Instead of say a widget being made by a a foreign worker that only needs X level of skill you artifically keep your workers making said widget instead of the other country.  The end product is more expensive for your consumers (lowering their lifestyles), and keeping your workers at level X in skill when they should retrain to X+1 level to earn a better wage in skill and let the less skilled workers make said widget.  Your country workers also complete at the same products, effectively lowering the earning potential of your countries' workers.

Also protectionism creates trade barriers/wars.  Country X raises tarriffs then country Y raises tarriffs and everyone looses.

At least that's my understanding (I only have an Associate's Degree in Economics :-)
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Harmor wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...they'll never learn.
You can mouth the words, but do you understand why it doesn't work?
As a mater of fact yes:

When you put up trade barriers you make your work force less competitive and the products they produce are more expensive for everyone (lowering the lifestyle of your population).

Instead of say a widget being made by a a foreign worker that only needs X level of skill you artifically keep your workers making said widget instead of the other country.  The end product is more expensive for your consumers (lowering their lifestyles), and keeping your workers at level X in skill when they should retrain to X+1 level to earn a better wage in skill and let the less skilled workers make said widget.  Your country workers also complete at the same products, effectively lowering the earning potential of your countries' workers.

Also protectionism creates trade barriers/wars.  Country X raises tarriffs then country Y raises tarriffs and everyone looses.

At least that's my understanding (I only have an Associate's Degree in Economics :-)
That's the basic gist, yeah.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

"If goods can't cross, then armies will."
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA
What should be done with China's unfair trading policy?  (i.e. their Yuan being under valued).

Making arguments to the WTO hasn't really done much.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Harmor wrote:

What should be done with China's unfair trading policy?  (i.e. their Yuan being under valued).

Making arguments to the WTO hasn't really done much.
Nothing. China is on the verge of imploding.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5207|Cleveland, Ohio

JohnG@lt wrote:

Nothing. China is on the verge of imploding.
how so?
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

11 Bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Nothing. China is on the verge of imploding.
how so?
Huge infrastructure bubble.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6467

Too Big To Fail
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Nothing. China is on the verge of imploding.
how so?
Huge infrastructure bubble.
This, environmental wasteland, and strengthening unions among a lot of other reasons.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

I don't know how some of China even exists with all the pollution. Then the large amounts of inflation as a result of artificially eroding their currency has inflated their economy in general.

Inflation does such a good job of skewing the market. BB just said we didn't have enough of it.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:


how so?
Huge infrastructure bubble.
This, environmental wasteland, and strengthening unions among a lot of other reasons.
lol unions in china? good saying in china "if you dont take this shitty job, they'll be a million people to replace you."

i also herd breathing in mercury and lead is bad for you lel
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:


Huge infrastructure bubble.
This, environmental wasteland, and strengthening unions among a lot of other reasons.
lol unions in china? good saying in china "if you dont take this shitty job, they'll be a million people to replace you."

i also herd breathing in mercury and lead is bad for you lel
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2010/06/chi … atter.html
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


This, environmental wasteland, and strengthening unions among a lot of other reasons.
lol unions in china? good saying in china "if you dont take this shitty job, they'll be a million people to replace you."

i also herd breathing in mercury and lead is bad for you lel
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2010/06/chi … atter.html
well what could you expect from a "communist" country lol. i know wages are rising but didnt hear much about unionizing...
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...
orly? it worked for ussr, you know. aside from totalitarian ideology, it was hardcore protectionism that enabled them to build a superpower they were.
never works my ass.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

Shahter wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...
orly? it worked for ussr, you know. aside from totalitarian ideology, it was hardcore protectionism that enabled them to build a superpower they were.
never works my ass.
And what happened to your economy in the 80s exactly? yeah...
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

Cybargs wrote:

And what happened to your economy in the 80s
... proves what i posted: as soon as ussr opened themselves to the world market thier economy collapsed.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5229|foggy bottom
californication
Tu Stultus Es
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

Shahter wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

And what happened to your economy in the 80s
... proves what i posted: as soon as ussr opened themselves to the world market thier economy collapsed.
https://www.cfr.org/content/publications/images/RussiaGDP_Chart.png

Yeah it's totally in the slums
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Shahter wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...
orly? it worked for ussr, you know. aside from totalitarian ideology, it was hardcore protectionism that enabled them to build a superpower they were.
never works my ass.
Sure, it works if you keep a completely isolated economy. As soon as a protected economy opens itself to any degree it will collapse. A protected economy is simply non-competitive and stagnant. The true loser in a protected economy is the consumer as they are stuck purchasing what ever piece of trash can be produced locally with no competitive compulsion to provide a quality product.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-09-26 09:57:38)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6686

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Protectionism never works...
orly? it worked for ussr, you know. aside from totalitarian ideology, it was hardcore protectionism that enabled them to build a superpower they were.
never works my ass.
Sure, it works if you keep a completely isolated economy. As soon as a protected economy opens itself to any degree it will collapse. A protected economy is simply non-competitive and stagnant.
propaganda nothing is really freedom blah blah you dont know anything
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