13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6467

Lol
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

jord wrote:

Hotlinking is a victimless crime, right john?
Shut your fucking face, unclefucker!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
jord
Member
+2,382|6648|The North, beyond the wall.

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Haven't heard from Uziqe ? that coffee must have scorched his crotch ! Maybe he can sue McDonald's
Uzique*.

Its Friday night here, I assume he's out. I also sincerely doubt he will need to sue anyone, anytime.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561
There are translations of the Koran into English.

But, removing it from the native Koran-Arabic destroys much of the subtlety, meaning, allusion, and pretty much all of the content that isn't blatantly spelled out.

It'd be like translating James Joyce into Chinese.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6325

jord wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Haven't heard from Uziqe ? that coffee must have scorched his crotch ! Maybe he can sue McDonald's
Uzique*.

Its Friday night here, I assume he's out. I also sincerely doubt he will need to sue anyone, anytime.
Why, is he wealthy ? do you know him personally ? does he froth in person ? I kinda doubt he would.
jord
Member
+2,382|6648|The North, beyond the wall.

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

jord wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Haven't heard from Uziqe ? that coffee must have scorched his crotch ! Maybe he can sue McDonald's
Uzique*.

Its Friday night here, I assume he's out. I also sincerely doubt he will need to sue anyone, anytime.
Why, is he wealthy ? do you know him personally ? does he froth in person ? I kinda doubt he would.
Yes.
No.
What?
I see.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6702|St. Andrews / Oslo

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

jord wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Haven't heard from Uziqe ? that coffee must have scorched his crotch ! Maybe he can sue McDonald's
Uzique*.

Its Friday night here, I assume he's out. I also sincerely doubt he will need to sue anyone, anytime.
Why, is he wealthy ? do you know him personally ? does he froth in person ? I kinda doubt he would.
All very relevant and interesting questions
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Why, is he wealthy ? do you know him personally ? does he froth in person ? I kinda doubt he would.
Probably. No. Only after a wicked two-week drug bender. gotcha.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6325

Jenspm wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

jord wrote:


Uzique*.

Its Friday night here, I assume he's out. I also sincerely doubt he will need to sue anyone, anytime.
Why, is he wealthy ? do you know him personally ? does he froth in person ? I kinda doubt he would.
All very relevant and interesting questions
The boat sailed on that in minute one, when uziuqe showed up lol
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6586|do not disturb

rdx-fx wrote:

There are translations of the Koran into English.

But, removing it from the native Koran-Arabic destroys much of the subtlety, meaning, allusion, and pretty much all of the content that isn't blatantly spelled out.

It'd be like translating James Joyce into Chinese.
Direct translation word for word is impossible, but can the message really suffer that much?
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561

rdx-fx wrote:

There are translations of the Koran into English.

But, removing it from the native Koran-Arabic destroys much of the subtlety, meaning, allusion, and pretty much all of the content that isn't blatantly spelled out.

It'd be like translating James Joyce into Chinese.

Phrozenbot wrote:

Direct translation word for word is impossible, but can the message really suffer that much?
If you're going for the Madrassa-taught overt passages, translation isn't going to hurt it.
Some of the more subtle meanings and references are apparently lost in translation though.
James Joyce into Chinese is an understatement.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6586|do not disturb

So I guess the only way to truly understand would be to read it in Arabic. Such a cultural barrier.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

I'd bluntly answer the OP as it stands, but it depends on which sect you ask. Do what other people do, Google a decent translation, read the thing and then supplement it with related scholarly texts.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561
Here's a Koran translation.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2010-09-11 01:58:55)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6619

rdx-fx wrote:

Here's a Koran translation.
Wow that is not a very easy to read format lol. Thanks for trying though. I think I'm just gonna get a copy from a bookstore.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

Phrozenbot wrote:

So I guess the only way to truly understand would be to read it in Arabic.
that would pretty much be the opinion of those, who professionaly studied arabic literature and religion, yes. translating koran would be like translating Jabberwocky - it's simply impossibe not to loose most of the delicate stuff in that brilliant - though absolutely nonsencial - piece of poetly in translation.

so, i repeat: koran, like all the other "holy scriptures" - is a book of nonsence, and it was made that way on purpose. even thouse, who speak arabic languge all their life, still have trouble understanding koran. forget about translations, they won't do you any good - not without special education anyway. instead look for annotations and stuff like that.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6586|do not disturb

Shahter wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

So I guess the only way to truly understand would be to read it in Arabic.
that would pretty much be the opinion of those, who professionaly studied arabic literature and religion, yes. translating koran would be like translating Jabberwocky - it's simply impossibe not to loose most of the delicate stuff in that brilliant - though absolutely nonsencial - piece of poetly in translation.

so, i repeat: koran, like all the other "holy scriptures" - is a book of nonsence, and it was made that way on purpose. even thouse, who speak arabic languge all their life, still have trouble understanding koran. forget about translations, they won't do you any good - not without special education anyway. instead look for annotations and stuff like that.
Well thank you and RDX for the replies. However, whenever I read the Bible, it was always to understand the authors intent. The psalms for example, are poetic and the poetic nature may be lost after translation, but the message is still clear, which is ultimately the point. I'm not arguing, this may very well be the case for the Koran.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

Phrozenbot wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

So I guess the only way to truly understand would be to read it in Arabic.
that would pretty much be the opinion of those, who professionaly studied arabic literature and religion, yes. translating koran would be like translating Jabberwocky - it's simply impossibe not to loose most of the delicate stuff in that brilliant - though absolutely nonsencial - piece of poetly in translation.

so, i repeat: koran, like all the other "holy scriptures" - is a book of nonsence, and it was made that way on purpose. even thouse, who speak arabic languge all their life, still have trouble understanding koran. forget about translations, they won't do you any good - not without special education anyway. instead look for annotations and stuff like that.
Well thank you and RDX for the replies. However, whenever I read the Bible, it was always to understand the authors intent. The psalms for example, are poetic and the poetic nature may be lost after translation, but the message is still clear, which is ultimately the point. I'm not arguing, this may very well be the case for the Koran.
i'm not arguing either, i'm simply expressing an opinion. even though i do think that if so called "message" of any "holy scripture" seems clear to you, that either means that you posess some sort of special "power of insight and observation" that i don't or you simply imagining stuff - with latter looking much more likely to me - i would still say: to each his own. just make sure that you aren't being taken advantage of there - now that would be unfortunate.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561

Phrozenbot wrote:

Well thank you and RDX for the replies. However, whenever I read the Bible, it was always to understand the authors intent. The psalms for example, are poetic and the poetic nature may be lost after translation, but the message is still clear, which is ultimately the point. I'm not arguing, this may very well be the case for the Koran.
Take that subtlety the Bible uses as a minor element, and make that one of the key themes of the Koran.
Like if you took the Old Testament (hellfire, wrath, brimstone, etc), then rewrote it all in dense Zen-like aphorisms formed into haiku, with a multitude of obscure historical tribal-memory references thrown in for fun.

If you're bored and have a metric assload of downtime during a deployment, I suppose learning Koran-Arabic might be a semi-useful passtime.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6441
good god i thought i'd see where this thread went in 2 pages of discussion, after hunter/jumper accused me of non-stop derailing. 4 pages later and he's still hung up on me, desperately trying to portray me as some ultra-pathetic american liberal of the worst order. h/j, you are absolutely nuts, dude. like, im being serious. it's scary - i think you may have a few screws loose. fyi, i never wanted to derail or take your thread into 'irrelevance', i just suspected the entire point of the discussion when your (originally deleted) OP had such a racist/anti-islamic undertone. it's hard to sincerely reply to your thread, as if it's credible, when your OP wasn't so much about looking for a good scholarly translation so much as making sure that the western version didn't "omit stuff about disrespecting women". it was a joke of an enquiry.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|6734|d

Shahter wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

So I guess the only way to truly understand would be to read it in Arabic.
that would pretty much be the opinion of those, who professionaly studied arabic literature and religion, yes. translating koran would be like translating Jabberwocky - it's simply impossibe not to loose most of the delicate stuff in that brilliant - though absolutely nonsencial - piece of poetly in translation.

so, i repeat: koran, like all the other "holy scriptures" - is a book of nonsence, and it was made that way on purpose. even thouse, who speak arabic languge all their life, still have trouble understanding koran. forget about translations, they won't do you any good - not without special education anyway. instead look for annotations and stuff like that.
1st. I don't think thats the only way to understand it, sure if you want to go in-depth then yeah learning Arabic is a good idea but to understand the basics, English is fine.

2nd. The reason why those that speak Arabic language have trouble understanding it is due to the advanced dialect used.

Also, Annotations and other resources related to a book accompany IT, and can not be used as a substitute.

Here's a fun fact: Muhammad (pbuh) could neither read nor write.
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6615

Uzique wrote:

he said he wanted to find an accurate translation of the koran because he wanted to check to make sure that none of the passages that were being vile to women, children and humanity in general were being translated into cuddle-fests for the arabic audiences. something along the lines of "i want to make sure that "if a woman wears lipstick cut her fucking head off!" isn't translated to "love women for they are thy equals" in the arabic version. it was fucking moronic. the quality of this OP speaks for itself.
there should be some stuff in English, for one my history classes we had to read passages from Quran...
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6441
of course there are language translations of every text. the key thing is how accurate/reliable and 'true' to the original they are.

translating from one language to another is difficult, in scholarly senses. translating to keep the original intention is even harder.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|6734|d
I really don't get where this thread is going : s .

/close.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6325
I am done here. I got a bunch of stuff to read on islam. Biased or not I have yet to tell, But enough of it that I may draw a properly balanced education on the topic - maybe

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2010-09-12 12:37:14)

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard